Women's Health Tech: The Future of Breast Imaging with Naomi Cosman

Hello. Welcome to The Healthy Enterprise. If you're a new listener, thank you for joining us. And if you're a return listener, well, thanks for coming back. I appreciate it.

My episode today, I'm gonna be talking to Naomi Cosman. She is the head of global marketing and investor relations at Koning Corporation. Koning Corporation is revolutionizing breast imaging technology. This is gonna be cool. You're gonna wanna hear this.

So let's meet Naomi. Naomi, thank you for joining me today. Welcome to this episode. Looking forward to hearing about your role at Koning and and your experience with marketing in this health care space. But maybe take this opportunity to sort of introduce yourself and and explain to the listeners who you are and a little bit about Koning.

Sounds good. Thanks so much for having me on. Very excited to be here and to talk about coning health. I'm the head of marketing of coning, and what coning does is we are a manufacturer of the coningvera breast CT, basically a revolutionary device in the breast imaging space that allows for a woman to get a quicker, more dignified exam that showcases beautiful images in true three d. And that's very different from how the industry is right now because, typically, a woman who is 40 years old and older would go to get her mammogram, and mammogram compresses the breasts.

Sometimes you need to take multiple images depending on the size, the density. And especially for women with dense breasts, it's not typically as clear of an image. So Conan came to be to answer this issue that has been in the industry for sixty plus years now and to provide a seven second exam that does not include any compression. So a woman goes in. She doesn't have to be touched or pulled or anything like that.

It is all her. She puts herself on the device kind of like a massage table, and she's in and out in a few minutes. And the images are beautiful and very readable for a radiologist. So we're excited to be expanding very quickly now and across The US, and we also have facilities around the world. So just trying to get the word out about coning and let women know that there's something else out there that is available, and it's an option for breast imaging now.

That's amazing. Because, I mean, everything I've ever heard about it is that it's excruciating well, painful

Yes.

As well. Plus, yeah, not a very comfortable experience.

Exactly.

And you have to do it through a a primary care doctor traditionally. Right? So is this something you do you don't do through your primary care doctor, or or is it a facility that they they go to?

Yeah. So it really depends. The we are in clinics and privately held clinics. We're in hospitals as well. So any facility that's interested in, you know, the the best of the best technology of of today is able to get the device, you know, whether that's an aesthetic clinic, a, you know, breast surgery clinic, a, you know, a gynecology clinic, a regular hospital.

So it really depends. You know, we'll talk to anybody who's interested, and it's really just about making this exam more accessible to women all over the country.

I mean, where do where do women get mammograms right now? Where is the most common place for them?

Yeah. I mean, I would say a gynecology clinic is probably the most common. You know, again, it depends. Big hospitals are definitely gonna have mammograms, ultrasounds, and MRIs, all of which are used for breast imaging. This device is a CT device, which typically people get scared of because they think, okay.

CT higher radiate radiation. That's actually not true. So our

Oh, okay.

Our our device actually is the same radiation as a typical mammogram and actually can be a little bit less because you only need one three hundred sixty degree image of the breast as opposed to a few different angles of a compressed breast. So it is not bad for you in any way. It is much more comfortable, and, you know, we're hearing only good things from women who got this exam.

Well, it certainly simplifies the process. And, I mean, I mean, recommended mammograms are are kind of an ongoing thing. What is the regular recommendation for how often that happens? Is it an annual thing for

most of If you're 40 years and older, it's recommended that you get an exam annually. That changes depending on your family history, if you have a history of breast cancer yourself. There's all these other factors. So, if you have dense breasts, you might have to get it every six months. So it really depends, but at minimum, every year.

And we actually hear, and see from statistics that half of the women that are supposed to be getting their annual exam don't, and that is largely due to the pain from compression. So, know, if we can avoid the compression, the pain, and the lack of dignity that women feel when they're getting this very important exam, then we can get more women checked and, you know, make sure that a woman can live her best life without, you you know, cancer, breast cancer.

Right. And prevention is early detection is the key to breast cancer, my understanding is. So the the more barriers you can remove around getting that check that checkup done, the better

for everybody. Right? Exactly.

Amazing. Yep. Okay. So what is that well, tell me what attracted you to Koning. I mean, you've been in a marketing specialist in the in the health care area for a while.

I mean, you've done other things in marketing. But what was it about that attracted you to that company? Yeah. I mean, I've been

with Koning for about four years now. And, you know, as a woman and, you know, as somebody who knows people who have gone through breast cancer, it's a very it's I'm very passionate about it. And being able to make a difference in women's lives is very meaningful. And I saw an opportunity to be a part of a company that is really providing something that nobody else has out there, at least not FDA approved yet. And, you know, to be able to bring that to women and actually really truly make a difference is such a good feeling and really the reason that I wake up every morning and I'm happy to do my job.

So the response must be amazing. You must like, when you first introduce this to somebody or they first hear of it or test it out Nothing. You must get an interesting response from people like, where has this been? You know? Like, why did it take so long?

How many? Sixty years, you said?

Yeah. About sixty.

Like Okay. How long why did it take sixty years? I heard somebody say something about, yeah, it was probably a man that designed the mammogram.

I hear that all the time. And as soon as I tell peep you know, like, as soon as I told my mom that I was working for this company or, like, any of my family members, any friends, they are all like, okay. First of all, where can I get this? And second of all, why did it take so long? Third of all, it was definitely a man who invented the mammogram machine.

Everything that you just listed is a % what I hear. But for the most part, it's all just about, you know, they're excited that this exists now. And, you know, it again, like I said, it's just about being able to get it out to more women so that there isn't the issue of, you know, low compliance rates and, you know, missing breast cancer and that kind of thing.

If there's any sort of pushback, is it just that it it's maybe just not really believing that it could be any different? You find if is there is there any kind of pushback from that?

Well, the only push that back that we really get is from the industry, and that's really the unfortunate part about being in a company that is revolutionary like this. It is an industry that doesn't change very quickly. So when I first started luckily, it's not like this now, but when I first started, there were so many naysayers. It was, you know, too experimental. We've never done, like, CT with breasts before, you know, x y z, all these excuses, really.

Right.

Of course, mostly coming from men, I will say. Right. I'm not bitter at all. But, you know, it's just over the years, we have seen that there's been more growth towards this this mindset of, okay. Maybe there are other ways that we can go about imaging women's breasts that are just as good or better.

You know, maybe they don't need supplementary imaging. Like, if you have dense breasts, for example my mother has dense breasts. She has to get both a mammogram and either an ultrasound or an MRI every single time that she goes, and that's ridiculous. You know? Like, it shouldn't be like that.

It should be one and done. You got your images. You know whether or not you're healthy. You know? And if you have to come back for a biopsy, you know, you can get that done, which, by the way, our device also allows for biopsy in one device.

So it's a win win for everybody. It's a win win for the patients and also for the physicians who don't have to buy multiple devices to get the same result.

So the device does biopsies as well?

It does. Yes. Basically, the way that it usually, I have the background of the of the device, but the device looks like a very big massage table. Let's just put it that way so you can vision it.

Okay. And

then it raises up and the door is open, and the doctor can, right there, you know, do the biopsy on the table without the woman moving at all to a different room or anything like that. And the process is much quicker. You know? Like, there's, I think, fifteen minutes in and out, and she's done, and she'll have her results as quick as the physician can read them. And, you know, it's it's really a game changer.

So

Yeah. It sounds like it. And so now you're not getting the you're not getting the resistance you had before. It's it's it's lightening up a bit.

Right. And Yes.

And it's being adopted. How how long has it actually been in the market?

So we've been in the market. The the company has been around for about twenty years, but most of that was doing r and d, making sure that, you know, we got our FDA approval. So we are now FDA approved for diagnostic use, you know, and then starting the real, like, commercial part of building the company out. And that's when I was brought on to do the marketing and help with sales. But, yeah, like I said, we go to conferences every year that are very industry focused.

And Right. The first conference that I ever went to a few years ago, like I said, it was all naysayers. Like, it's too early for this. You know? We're we're fine with the mammograms the way they are.

And then as of this year, it's more you know, they're just asking questions about, like, well, okay. Like, how do how does this part work, and how can I read this image? And it very much more specific targeted questions that are leading to the right result, which is accepting the technology as a good, hopeful replacement for mammograms in the future. Right now, obviously, they're not a replacement, but that is the goal eventually.

Right. Right. If if there was a a date that that would happen, how long do you think it's gonna take?

Oh, many years, unfortunately. Yeah. Because there are the big you know, I won't say any names. So there's big, big players in the industry who, you know, have, I would say, a monopoly on it, on on mammogram devices, ultrasound. So we are a very small fish in a very large pond, and, you know, we're just trying to to work our way up to that.

So can can't say for certain, but it's not gonna be it's not next year. I can tell you that.

Yeah. And I suppose that's kind of one of the obstacles, you know, when you enter a market that has, you know, very rooted systems or habits or however you wanna look at it. Really rooted in in in historical decision making and organizations and investment. Right? So what how you know, from a marketer's perspective, how do you how do you break through?

Is it is it truly an education process for people?

I mean, that's basically, the main part of my job was educating people. So and that comes from, you know, both educating patients and actually just letting them know that this exists. And then the physician side of things, you know, showing them case studies and, you know, the statistics and, you know, the technical aspects that, you know, they're used to reading, everything, every little detail because radiologists are very specific in their questions and in their concerns. If we can answer all of those questions and concerns, then, you know, we can have a real dialogue. So it's an uphill battle, but, again, seeing progress.

So I think we're getting we're we're really we're getting to the right place and having the right conversations and just very excited that it's finally gotten to people's attention enough that they're willing to be like, okay. Let me sit down and have a conversation with you and see what's so special about this.

Who were the early adopters of this? Like, who do who who embraced it first?

Yeah. Yeah. So our first clinic was actually in Tennessee. They've been they actually got their second device recently, so big fans of theirs. And then we are based down in Atlanta, Georgia.

So we have several, hospitals and clinics in that area that have been quicker to adopt and, you know, slowly working our way to the big metropolitan areas. We're doing an installation in Chicago this week, actually, which I'm very excited about because that's where

I'm Wow.

New York City, LA. You know, we're finally getting to those big areas, those big hubs where, you know, women can fly in or they can, you know, drive in. So they're the closest city to them and and get an exam. That's really exciting.

What's the potential of, like, mobile units?

Mhmm. Yeah. Yeah.

Is that an option?

Yeah. Absolutely. We do have our own mobile unit that's based at our office in Atlanta. For those, we work with usually, like, big enterprises will do scan days for their employees, which have been a really great success also. So that's kind of a, you know, a a faster way to get some adoption in certain areas because employees see this as a huge benefit that, you know, they obviously, big companies are paying for the health care of their employees.

They see this as a way like, a a preventative way of helping women, and they bring our mobile to their to their company and do a few scan days. And we really love that. You know, it's we hear really great things from both the companies and the women that get to to do it. They are the women are grateful to their companies for providing it. So, yeah, mobile is definitely a thing we have.

There is an organization out in California as well that just did their own mobile with our device. So, it is definitely movable. You know, it's not as common right now, but, you know, one day, we'll be doing cross country mobile tours just like the other companies and bringing this to more women everywhere.

Well, I mean, certainly, an opportunity to bring it to your more underdeveloped nations too, right, where where this is an issue there too. It's not just in wealthy countries. It's in it's in every country in the world. So that's the kind of thing that would really get that kind of accessibility to to those

Absolutely. Absolutely.

And rural. Rural where there are not a lot of major in not major centers where there's medical clinics and Yep. And hospitals that people can access to. That's really interesting that Yeah. It could be taken on there or like that.

So tell me a little bit about the technology in there. Like, what is it? You said it's a CT. Like, you can't compare it to a CT scan, but it's not the same intensity.

Right. So, yeah, so it's computed tomography, a CT. But I think the thing that scares people away is that CT is usually done for a whole body or bigger body parts. This is very specifically focused on the breast. So the radiation is targeting one specific area just like a mammogram.

It's not any more radiation than you would get from taking a cross country flight, truly.

Right.

So that's not anything to be feared. And, you know, the special thing about our technology, one thing that really differentiates us is the lack of compression. So, you know, we use gravity as a way to be able to see everything that is in the breast. The woman lies flat, and the breast falls into a hole. And that's how we get the 360 degree image of each of the breasts.

It's one breast at a

time. Interesting.

That's extremely different because, you know, mammogram devices, a woman is usually standing. There's two big paddles that she has to, you know, place her breast on, and then they're like and and it's a lot of weight. It's very painful. And the thing that I think is the most funny, especially as a marketer, is the way that other companies get around that is by saying, oh, like, you know, we have this new, a better way of compression. You know, you get to do it now.

As a woman, you get to do the compression. And my response to that is, well, why would I wanna do that at all? You know? Like, I would rather not have any, not just, you know, do it to myself. Why would I put myself through that?

Exactly.

And I will you know, there's an asterisk to this because I don't want to prevent any woman from getting their annual mammograms. They should absolutely do that. You know, getting your screening, getting your diagnostic exam, doing the whole nine yards is very, very important to your holistic health as a woman. But, you know, we are trying to provide an alternative to that. So that is that is what my job is is to make women

That's right.

That's there.

That's right. Change the messaging and get that out there. Exactly. So tell me about that a little bit. What how do you you know, obviously, it's it's women, but how do you target your audiences?

And I I guess there's two ways. I mean, the women who need mammograms are kind of like the end user. Uh-huh. But in between there, you have all these providers. Right?

Yes. So do you do both? Is it kind of a full circle marketing approach

or messaging approach? I would say it's a full circle. It's there's also it's fun because there's a few different ways that you can skin the cat, so to speak. You know, there's you when I first started, we were heavily targeting women. We were just getting it was all about brand awareness.

Like, hey. We exist. This exists. You know, there's another option. We over the past few years, my social media team has done an amazing job, you know, getting our name out there, and we've gone viral multiple times, more than I can count, millions and millions of views, and have tens of thousands of followers now on our channels.

And so from a patient perspective, we definitely are succeeding. You know, women are taking to our messaging. They see that this is an option. They get excited about it, and then they start telling people about it. Interestingly enough, what I've heard at conferences is that some of the physicians that come to our booth to see our device are told by their patients that this exists.

And so that's a really interesting way of going about it. You go through the patient to get to the physician. Obviously, we do it the other way around too. We go straight to the physician, and our, you know, our president, our head of sales are very well connected in the industry, have a lot of experience in the industry. So it's about, like, conversations and building that network of physicians specifically.

Then you get the physicians on board. We have an amazing scientific advisory board team who help spread the word in their circles, and that can be done, you know, just word-of-mouth. It can be done on LinkedIn. LinkedIn is really big for us in terms of the actual clinical side of things. So, yeah, it's, you know, full circle, but also, you know, a little bit of this, a little bit of that.

And Yeah. As a younger company that's, you know, newer to the industry, I think we have little bit more freedom to do those kinds of things and to play around with our marketing message than a huge, you know, a huge company that has been around for hundreds of years and, you know, have tens of thousands of employees in a very specific way of doing things, and that's another exciting thing about my job.

Right. No kidding. I mean, it's a serious conversation, but are you able to throw some humor at that?

Yeah. I mean, there's definitely

What went viral? Was it was it something that was humorous, or was it what what what was it that went viral?

Interestingly enough, what really resonates with our followers is real women getting an exam, and that's not surprising. You know? They wanna know, okay. So you could you could promote any kind of product, but if you don't see anyone using it, is it real? Like, does it actually work?

Right. But having, you know, the patient to patient communication is really strong. You know? So they see a woman getting on the device and talking about their experience. That is so invaluable to us.

And, yeah, of course, you can throw some humor into that.

And Sure.

I think women appreciate that. It's a heavy topic sometimes, but

Yeah.

A little levity can go a long way as well.

Yeah. Absolutely. Like, little scenarios where you've got, you know, someone lying down and whatever, cucumbers on her eyes. It's like, I'm having my mammogram

right That's exactly. That's the imagery that we wanna promote a %.

Yeah. That's cool. Yeah. Yeah. I'm sure there'd be some fun ways you could probably pull that off.

Yeah. Definitely. I might

use that. You can have it. That's yours. Thank you. Thanks.

We'll credit you.

Okay. No problem. I I love the idea of the corporate involvement, you know, where you where employers can can do this for their staff. Like, what a great what a great tool. I mean, it's you're giving a lot.

I mean, particularly if you have a high demographic employment base Runner. You know, that's that's female. I mean, it's really that would be a really great culture boost.

I think so too. Yeah. Mean, I've worked in very large companies as well, and I remember, you know, we had benefits for you know, like, if you work out every week or something like you don't smoke. You know, they have little things that they do to make health fun. Yeah.

And I think it just, like it speaks to, you know, the company and how they care about their employees and especially, you know, as a woman and somebody who might have to go through one in eight women get diagnosed with breast cancer. That is a lot of women.

That's a lot.

So if a company can, you know, show that they care and that they wanna prevent that from happening to their employees, that goes a long way. You know? There's loyalty involved in that. You know? There's Yeah.

A lot of benefits to the company for providing this to their employees for sure.

It could be the thing that makes a person decide to go work for

that company

as opposed to that company. So when Sure. Yeah. In a world of, you know, employment retention, which is difficult right now, it's a it's a it's a great That's what tool for that. Absolutely.

Absolutely.

I mean, my dream scenario would be that every company in The US provides this as an employee benefit, and and, hopefully, we'll get there one day. You know? That's not it's not impossible.

How about the insurance companies? Are they getting on board?

Yeah. That's a that's a long conversation, but I would say slowly. Slowly. Slowly. That is another uphill battle.

You know, we do have a few insurance companies that have gotten on board specifically in Atlanta, in the Atlantic area. You know, those are very specific conversations that need to be had. Usually, you know, there's lobbying involved. We have to get we we try to go through politicians. There's a lot of intricacies with that.

So right now, there's more cash pay options for clinics and for patients to get this done than insurance coverage.

Right.

But that's not to say that it will come, you know, in the very, very near future, and it really just depends on the clinic or the hospital, how close are they with their insurance providers. Right. Do they have those conversations? You know, we we help with a little bit of the heavy lifting, but it's really up to the clinic to be able to, you know, connect with their insurance providers.

If somebody is going direct pay and they're they're paying for themselves, what is the what is the cost of an exam?

I mean, it varies. It really varies. It depends on the city and the state. You know? So we've seen everywhere from $350 to $1,500, and it's you know, we leave that up to the clinic to decide.

Sure. Yeah. They have a they they set their own rates. Yeah. Yeah.

Still, I mean, reasonable if you think about this as an annual an annual checkup that has to be done. But be nice if insurance companies started getting on board. I mean, I I have heard a lot about the potential for insurance companies to be, you know, rewarding rewarding customers with prevention

Absolutely.

Habits and and things like that.

So It works in their favor, really, for sure. But Yeah. Think so. Women we've also seen that women are very willing to pay for this. My best case scenario would be that they don't have to, obviously.

But, you know, from surveys and and conversations that we've had, there's there's definitely a willingness to pay. And, you know, that's you see that also in kind of trendy companies, startups. You will see, like, these full body MRI companies that are charging $3,000 or $2,500 for these full body scans for peace of mind. A great messaging. I love their marketing.

It's really brilliant. Yeah. But Yeah. At the same time, you know, like, some of these things should be covered by insurance. And, you know, we are one of those.

We are very aware of that. We are working as hard as we can to make sure it will be. But for now, you know, it's it will be available in places for cash pay for the most part. You know?

Tell me a little bit about Koning and the organization. How a little bit about the leadership and and what what what Koning is like as far as an employer and

For sure. Yeah. It's a, I would say, a small lean, lean team. You know, we do a lot with a small amount of people, all brilliant, all dedicated, and all very passionate about what what our mission is. We were started up in University of Rochester, and our founder was actually Chinese.

And interestingly enough, that community tends to have very small dense breasts. So he saw a need to be able to answer that, like, respond to that issue, basically. And, obviously, there's reason to use this for women everywhere regardless of whether you're small, dense, or not. But that's where we were born, about twenty or so years ago, then we expanded out into our own company. And since then, you know, management is including you know, we have, people who've worked for big consulting firms, people who've worked in the the actual industry.

We have, you know, people like me who've been across the board in all kinds of industries.

Right.

No. It really is just people who believe in it and wanna make a difference. And, you know, and and that's all that you really need, I think, is just the drive, the passion, the belief in the product. And, you know, we've seen success so far, and I'm sure it will keep going this direction.

And he he may actually shift that whole previous conversation about, oh, was designed by a man. They'll actually, like, shift that, turn it over on itself. Right? You're like, hey. It was designed by a man after all.

He did

Well, thank you.

Did a

specific man for inventing something that's actually, like, that

Wow. Congratulations.

Good. Yeah. Exactly.

That's funny. So you and you've been in the health you've worked in the health care world for a little bit longer. Have you done other health care in the past prior to going?

Not really. So more so, like, pre revenue startups, which I'm very passionate about startups. I I love everything about it. There's there's the chaos, and there's the beauty, and there's the responsibility, and it's always a lot of fun. There's never a dull moment.

But, you know, as far as meaningful health care change, coding is it, really. And it's where, you know, it's where I found my true passion. Love startups, but I also really love health care startups and being able to make that difference. And for such a small team, it's pretty, I think, pretty amazing how much of a difference we've already made, you know, being able to sell a decent amount of these devices and more coming very soon. You know?

And then that equates to x amount more women getting their exams and finding their cancers early and that kind of thing, preventing cancers. So it's this is this is where I wanna be. I love being in this space specifically, helping women and, you know, for a a small scrappy team that is just very passionate means a lot.

If you're if you're if you're speaking to other marketers like yourself Mhmm. Either entering entering this, you know, fresh out of school or maybe transitioning. What would advice do you give them about working with a start up? You know, maybe not specifically health care, but, you know, as a marketer in start up, what were some of the the tricks and tools that you use to kind of, you know, do your job?

Yeah. I mean, I would say just get ready. Like, get ready for everything that can possibly be thrown your way. I would say, you know, if you have the drive, if you want to have a lot of responsibility, then you'll succeed. And I think one of the fun things, having worked in both corporate and startups, I appreciate startups because you really can have your hands in everything.

You know? Like, I have conversations with our engineers, you know, and then our clinical side of things. So I get to see everything from a very holistic perspective. And from a mark for a marketing person, that is that's important to be able to see holistically and do your job well. You need to know all the little details.

You know? Maybe it's the micromanager in me, like, just wanting to know everything, but it actually really helps do the job well. So if you're just starting out, if you're interested in health care, I would say, you know, connect with people in the industry, ask to just have a friendly conversation, see if you can intern, and find your passion because you will you will do well. You will succeed if you know what you love. And and if you can be lucky enough to find something, find a company that you admire in that way, then, you know, you're set for life, I think.

Yeah. That's great advice. That's really good. Do you find marketing is sort of you know, how traditionally marketing had a you know, you had a marketing department and was either internal or it was an outsourced department, an agency of some sort. Do you find that marketing now because you're you kind of you've come into the marketing at a in a different in a younger generation.

Do you see marketing as being more infused almost through the entire company? Like, the conversations of marketing and messaging and PR and communications, is it happening in every department as opposed to just being siloed into, oh, those are the marketing people.

Right.

What's your what's your thoughts on that?

I mean, I would I would say I wish that was the case. You know, again, working in a corporate setting, you see it very siloed, and it is very much you know, the people on the top are filtering the message down. Things get lost in translation. I think it's a lot more difficult to work in that way because, like, the marketing people, the people who are really doing the work on the ground are not fully aware of what's going on. Then in a start up and, again, it's not every start up.

But in a start up, if you have the ability to be involved in more aspects of the company, like I said, you can do your job better. But I think you can also place yourself in a manner that the rest of the company understands that, like, you do need to be aware of things that are going on. And I've had these conversations with our sales team as well. You know, we want to be involved in the decision making process when it comes to every little detail that's changed about our device, you know, so that we can be in the know. We can have those conversations.

We can understand the messaging that needs to go out there. Because if you can imagine, you know, these changes could be made, and our team might not be aware. And then, like, how are we supposed to go out and actually message appropriately? Or, like, how can the sales team go out and sell new features if they don't even know that it exists? So I think, you know, there's a little bit of both depending on where you are.

I'm sure it's it varies across industries as well. But, yeah, I like, I wouldn't say that I mean, I've been in, you know, the workforce for almost fifteen years now, so it's you know, there's been change. And, of course, with that, you know, there's new social media platforms. There's all these new things that we have to stay on top of. But as far as generally speaking, I think the best way that you can go about it the best way that companies can go about it is to make sure that the marketing team is involved in all the conversations if for only the reason that they see what's going on and can, you know, then relay back out to people that are following the company.

Right. Well, I mean, if you think about all the different ways that messaging leaks out from a company, from a brand. You know what mean? We've got you've got well, you've got your products, your product messaging. You're you're you're selling launching products, trade shows, etcetera, etcetera.

Yep. But you also have executives who have LinkedIn channels.

Yeah. Yeah.

Right? And they and what they do and say, manner

manic Yeah. Absolutely.

Means something too. You've got staff who have social media accounts, and their company name is attached to that.

And

so you've also got corporate culture, which is about communicating and recruitment and about retention and about so I don't know. The now it seems like, you know, messaging and communications and marketing and how the brand is represented Yes. By an entire organization and all its people Yes. It happens all the time in multiple, multiple channels at multiple, multiple layers. And if it's not an infused, you know, system

Uh-huh.

That everyone's somewhat aware of Yeah. And in in in not in control of, but that it's that it's almost congruent or consistent with everyone's place in the company Yeah. You know, there's there's opportunities for well, there could be missed opportunities, but also mishaps in opportunities.

Right? And I'll actually you know, I wanna add to that as far as especially, you know, management leaders in the company speaking about their own product. You know, thought leadership is extremely important. And especially in the health care industry, people want to read and, you know, hear from people that are experts in the field. So, you know, if management isn't involved in those conversations, there's gonna be some kind of disconnect or a lack of trust.

So, you know, employees should do their best to be a vehicle for the company, for the messaging, and that could mean, you know, sharing on their social media channels. It could mean going individually to conferences or sitting on panels and having discussions in that way and networking generally. All of that is extremely important and creates this holistic marketing picture and strategy that, you know, can help a company succeed.

Yeah. I guess you you're also kind of from a messaging perspective, you're all kinda also balancing how much technology you're talking about with the fact that this is a human contact

Mhmm.

Device. Right? So you're you're speaking on one hand talking to physicians who, you know you know, they love medical talk and and but you're also reaching out to to individuals themselves who have have to have the treatment done. For sure. So how do you balance those messages?

Yeah. I mean, I'm sure, you know, people that are familiar with marketing will probably roll their eyes and, you know, nod and be like, obviously. But, you know, knowing your personas is the important thing. So who is it that you are targeting? And, you know, it's, I would say, you know, some companies might only have one, and that's great.

That's simple, very easy, and focused. For a company like ours, it means, like we were talking about previously, targeting our patients. Patient advocacy is big and then targeting the physicians. And, you know, there's also an investor aspect to that too. You know, we are a new company.

We're a start up. We are, you know, fundraising, and we're trying to get our name out there. And with that, you know, is cost. So having messaging related to the investors and why this is beneficial to them is important as well. That's three ways of messaging that are completely different.

And, you know, the way that we speak to them is different too. The vehicles that we use, the information that we provide, the messaging specifically is gonna be different across the board. You just can't overlap those. You know? So for the physicians, they're gonna wanna know about the technology.

They're gonna wanna know about throughput. How does this help their business succeed? You know, the investors are gonna wanna know about ROI and, you know, like, is this actually gonna make them money? And patients wanna know that this is gonna save their life or somebody that they care about, that this is, you know, a good enough technology that they can trust their family and friends and themselves to go on this device and get a good image of their breasts. So, again, all about different messaging, just being very aware of that, honing in on that too.

But then, you know, you can do some testing, a b testing, see what works, see what doesn't, and, you know, then specify a little bit more. And it's just an it's an iterative process, really.

Back to what you were talking about was thought leadership. And, my experience with the podcast is that I would say probably 50% of the people I interview are founders and CEOs.

Mhmm. Yep.

So they're the people they're they're and that's who you're talking about. It's like the people that are that are able to talk passionately about what they do Yep. Because they're the founder, but also talk from a leadership per persona

That's fine.

As a CEO. And you've got two different you gotta that's really two different messaging too. You know, the CEO is speaking to investors and everything else, whereas the founder is really the passion behind

Yeah.

The behind the vision. Right? So that's what I was gonna say was that I I find that as well. It was it was in agreement with what you said earlier.

So Absolutely. Yeah. And it takes finesse to be able to jump back and forth. You know?

Yeah. It's like, you know, turning the hat around, and then now I'm this, and now I'm that. So yeah.

Exactly.

Interesting. Wow. Mhmm. So where can people find more information about

Yeah. So our website is coninghealth.com, and you can see information about the technology. There's, you know, papers that have been written about this technology, locations, and, you know, any any specifics that you want, you can find there. You can also follow us on social media at Koning Health, and we talk about our, you know, new installations, where what's coming up, what's, you know, contact information for some of the clinics. And, you know, we like to be partnered with our clinics.

We really do try to help them with their marketing as well. So you will definitely, you know, hear about any upcoming installation on our social media. We put out press releases so you can keep an eye out for those. But, yeah, just spread the word, please, and, you know, let's get this to to more women all over the country.

Absolutely. Yeah. I agree. Mhmm. Thank you, Naomi, so much for taking this time to sit with me today and share with me your experience and

and talk

about Koning. Any last thoughts or anything you wanna leave behind before we say goodbye?

No. Just very happy to be here and, to talk about, you know, something that's that I'm very passionate about, that I know a lot of women and people generally are very passionate about, and, to, yeah, just spread the word about cloning. And, hopefully, hopefully, we can make a difference.

And you are already making a difference.

So Thank you. I appreciate that.

Appreciate that. Okay. Thanks, Naomi.

Thanks so much.

This is very important. Breast cancer affects so many people worldwide. One in eight, I believe Naomi said. So important to get the word out there. I really enjoyed listening to Naomi and her insight on marketing and that, you know, one of her one of the key takeaways from what she said was that it needs to be integrated across all departments, in organizations, and that thought leadership is crucial in health care industry for marketing and education purposes.

So, anyway, great episode again. Thank you to Naomi, and thank you to you for listening. And, be healthy, and, we'll talk again soon.