Wellness Through Genomics: Innovative Genetic Analysis Technology with Len May
Hey. Welcome to another episode of the Healthy Enterprise. Today, my guest is Lan May. He's the CEO at EndoDNA. It's a precision wellness company that delivers genetic analysis to medical professionals so they can help customize their health care treatment and preventative medicine programs to their patients.
Heath Fletcher:He's also an author. He's a global speaker. He's a music fanatic. In fact, he has his own podcast called everything is personal. I hope you enjoy today's chat with Len.
Heath Fletcher:Len, thank you for joining me today. I'm really looking forward to hearing about you, your history, and, your journey into where you are now with endoDNA. So, tell us tell us your story. What brought you here today?
Len May:Well, I was introduced recently twice as an autodidactic polymath. So I don't know what that means, so I have to look that up.
Heath Fletcher:So what? Can you say that again?
Len May:Autodidactic polymath. So there's a book on polymath. So polymaths are people who can do multiple things. You don't necessarily have to go to school for it. But as you do something, you become sort of an expert in that field because, and then you can do that in multiple fields.
Len May:So for me, you know, I hate to study, but I love to learn. And I think it's sort of my ADD brain that is part of that. So, if I'm interested in a subject, I can do a deep dive. And one of the things that I think, a gift that I was given was to take really complex information. As long as I understand it correctly in my own head, I can regurgitate that in a way for, you know, a fifth grader to understand.
Len May:So that's been sort of a I'm I was trying to put together and identify what my skill set is really or or are, and that seems to be one of them. So when, this whole thing with, ADD, attention deficit disorder, you know, I was the kind of kid that would sit in class and, I would daydream. I would have thoughts, and the teacher would call me, and I wouldn't be there. And then when I was forced to be there, I was kinda disruptive because I was trying to you know, people say get attention, but I was trying to get dopamine. So for me, it's that
Heath Fletcher:Right.
Len May:That hit of dopamine that I'm missing because when you, have ADD ADHD, in a sense as well, you have a depletion of dopamine. So your brain is always looking for that squirt. Right. How can I get more? So I was diagnosed with, ADD, attention deficit disorder, which I really don't like I never thought it was of me as having a disorder of anything.
Heath Fletcher:Yeah. Yeah.
Len May:You know? Sort of my superpower.
Heath Fletcher:It's kind of an unfair phrase, actually. It really is. Yeah.
Len May:Well, it's it's interesting you say that because we when we diagnose people with something, your brain starts making neural connections to that, and you start believing there may be something wrong with you. And your life is like, oh, shit. I have a disorder. I have dyslexia. I have this, and I have that.
Heath Fletcher:Dis ease.
Len May:Dis ease. Exactly. So long story, a little bit longer. I was diagnosed with ADD and put on medication.
Heath Fletcher:When you were young? Chocolate?
Len May:Yeah. So 14, something like that. So I was put on medication. Wow. And, you know, it's sort of I can't say it didn't work depending on how you define work.
Len May:Like, it allowed me to focus, but it disconnected me from my sense of self. So Right. The emotional part of me was numb, and you can go through the motions. And, anyway, in school, it was probably a year later or so. I was hanging out with, some older kids or maybe less, and they're like, you wanna smoke a cigarette?
Len May:I was like, yeah, man. Would be cool. Smoke a cigarette. Why not? Let's do it.
Len May:I mean, I had no idea what, you know, cigarettes were causing this and that. I'm like, yeah. So I never questioned that why they had one cigarette. So they passed around this one cigarette, and when I took a drag of it because I was dabbling in cigarettes, then it didn't taste the same as I remember. I took another drag, maybe cough.
Len May:I don't remember. And they were laughing at me. Like, what? And they put cannabis in the cigarette. So when I went back to class, all the windows that were in my head sort of narrowed, and I could focus.
Len May:I'm like, oh, well, that seems to be my medicine. So I start I stopped all the prescription medication and would try to see if I can find cannabis, and that became sort of my go to medicine for a while.
Heath Fletcher:Very interesting. Wow. What a way to discover that. Yeah. Almost by accident.
Heath Fletcher:That's really interesting. And and just and stepping back to when about diagnosis, I I actually have had people that I know that are being diagnosed, as an adult. And to them, they're almost they're they're actually very, they're very happy to to finally realize what was wrong with them. You know? Like, I mean, they were always questioning where they were.
Heath Fletcher:So I since you when you talk about how being diagnosed at a younger age as opposed to being diagnosed as an adult, it seems to explain a lot for some people once they get to that point and go, oh, yeah. Well, that explains a lot of things. So but that's interesting that that kinda, like, opened the window for you to understand, how you how to how to adjust your disorder, to work better for you. That's very interesting.
Len May:I I wouldn't say that it did that in the beginning because Okay. When you're you're still there's something wrong with you, and you have this perception there's something wrong with you. And you also use this as a as a crutch in life. So it is because my ADD. Oh, I can't focus because it's my ADD.
Len May:I can't do this. So when you start telling yourself those things, you start believing those things in
Heath Fletcher:yourself,
Len May:and you look at them as a liability instead of an asset. So I think it took me a long time to try to figure out that, really, I do things differently than other people. When I was in environments with large groups, I could see, you know, this is the way people are doing. What do you mean? I'm focused.
Len May:I'm like, well, I can only hyperfocus when I'm being stimulated. So an example would be, I I used to paint. Right? I kind of still do every once in a while. So when I paint, I'm hyperfocused.
Len May:And I'm in the studio six hours, and I'm not even aware of the time because I'm getting the dopamine. I'm I'm having this reciprocal relationship with what I'm what I'm doing. So it allows me to hyper focus. But if I'm not getting that stimulation, then my mind is looking for the next hit. And if if you're doing things like, you know, video games or you're on your phone, that stimulation of dopamine gets you to continually keep doing that.
Len May:But if it's not beneficial, you have to create disciplines for yourself and systems for yourself. So systems are the way that I really learn how to, you know, use as as really an effective superpower.
Heath Fletcher:Now tell us tell me about how you got to, this place. You're now the the CEO of EndoDNA. Yeah. So tell us about this. This is a DNA based wellness, business.
Heath Fletcher:How did you get here? Where and this is where
Len May:Yeah. I mean, it's it's part of the story of, you know, cannabis in a way because when I was consuming, first, my parents really didn't like it. And, at some point in my late teens, they ended up kicking me out. And, not only that, but calling the cops to try to have me arrested, then kick me out. The irony of this, they consume formulations my company has patents on, and it all came full circle.
Len May:But, you know, then I went into my corporate journey. I worked at, you know, different companies like Pricewaterhouse, PwC, some venture capital stuff, and, worked for, then I moved into real estate. And from from Philadelphia, I moved to Los Angeles where I live now and got into the dispensary space in the cannabis space. I was actually doing real estate and helping this group, and they asked me if I want to, you know, join them as a as a partner. So that's what I ended up doing.
Len May:And the one thing I started seeing was two people will consume the same chemical variety of phytocannabinoids and have a complete different experience. So once again, I had this ADD moment that I need to figure this out. And I started googling and researching. I found a video by a guy named Kevin McKernan who claimed to be the first one of the first people to genetically sequence the plant, the, the cannabis plant. So I started emailing, and, got together with Kevin, joined their company as a consultant, and my job was to travel and get plant material from different, cultivators, bring it back to my lab, extract the DNA, and sequence it.
Len May:And we create the first genetic, library of different chemical varieties called Catapedia, put that on the blockchain so everybody has a chain of custody. And I could understand what we're calling these plants and names that were given them. They don't really align exactly with what's in the plant. So that was my first foray, and then the company that was the parent company of medicinal genomics where I was consulting, they were called Cortigen Life Sciences. And they did what's called pharmacogenomics, which is a test PGX testing, which is how different drugs affect individual bodies, how they metabolize, and also drug interactions, etcetera.
Len May:So light bulb moment one day. I'm like, we have plant material here. We have, human DNA here. Let's bring those two together and guide people so they can avoid or mitigate a possible adverse event that people were saying, no. I can't, you know, I can't consume this.
Len May:It makes me feel whatever it is, anxiety, depression, anything. They really had no interest in it. They, closed down the human side. So I was lucky enough that I found some really smart people who work there and, formed, Endo in 2017. So our first approach was an endocannabinoid system test.
Len May:So as I said, when we met with the FDA, they said, what is the purpose of the test? And it's to help people either avoid or mitigate a possible adverse event. So the way that it worked is we have a buccal swab. You swab the anterior cheek. We're HIPAA.
Len May:We're GDPR compliant, so you treat it just like a medical record. You send that sample to our lab. It takes a couple weeks. Then you log in to your portal, and you will get your results. The results will look at your genome and show you all the genetic predispositions you may have towards adverse effects.
Len May:It looks at drug to drug interaction, looks at dosing based on metabolic function, tries to find products based on their certificate of analysis, which are test results that really align with the individual better so they can avoid those, you know, sort of pitfalls, or potholes in the in our road. And in doing that, we learned a lot about genetics and and epigenetics, and we started being approached by doctors and health care professionals. And one doctor in particular to approach us was doctor Jennifer Berman, who's one of the top female hormone health specialists and doctors in the country. She was an Oprah and doctor Phil, etcetera. And she said, you know, when I'm seeing two things that are happening to my patients.
Len May:Number one, I'm seeing a lot of younger women, late twenties, early thirties with perimenopause symptoms. I'm like, yeah. May have something to do with the food and water that we consume with hormones, but we can talk a little bit more about that. But then she said, I also have a lot of women that are coming in with these symptoms of menopause that are creating, like, really extreme side effects, sort of like hot flash severity, weight gain, really cognitive, brain fog, we would call it. She said, is there a way that genetically we can get ahead of these things?
Len May:So look at the person's genetic predisposition and then create a personalized protocol, which is what I always believe health care to be, not sick care, to be able to prevent some of these genetic predispositions for epigenetically expressing, so turning the switches on. So we created our first test in that foray, which was the menopause biotype test, and then we started expanding out to, like, whole genome. And as you said, precision health and wellness, looking at, you know, female hormone health, male hormone health, personalized nutrigenomics, supplementation, skin, even mental health, and being able to use generative AI to help health care professionals create personalized treatment protocols for individuals, not only based on the data that we're getting in the moment, but also efficacy data from other people that have similar genetics that have taken this and showed that it was efficacious for.
Heath Fletcher:So how long have you been running endoDNA now?
Len May:So we launched in December of twenty seventeen.
Heath Fletcher:2017. Right. So what have you what kind of challenges have you been facing in the market, you know, rolling this out? Have you had any, you know, setbacks or obstacles to overcome?
Len May:No. Business, it's very smooth. There's absolutely no obstacles. It's the easiest thing. And if anybody if anybody wants to get in business and wants CEO, BSC, suite per person in the company, smooth sailing.
Len May:You don't have to worry about it. It's like a license to print money. I mean, it's it is the most difficult job that I've ever had to experience in my life. I I think what what I I wanna convey to people is when you have an unequivocal belief in something and you really feel and and you read books about this and people talk about this. But when you really feel, like, deep down, if you can sit down and meditate and say, why the hell am I doing this?
Len May:What is the purpose? And you have experienced it. Like, I went to my daughter was going back to college, and she needed, like, some sort of thing from the doctor that says she had her shot. What whatever it is. I went to see a doctor, and it's this insurance based kind of treatment.
Len May:And they go through the motions. Let me listen to your heart. Let me look at your your your throat. What whatever it is. Let me hit the mallet, on your knee kind of thing.
Len May:And I think to myself, you know, we're all individuals. We're all unique. But when the doctor tells you to take two of these and call me in the morning, we don't question that. And why is it two? Why is it not one?
Heath Fletcher:Why is
Len May:it not four? Right. This this whole notion of, you know, a cookie cutter approach to sick care, we have to do something about that, and we're in the forefront of that. Yes. It's not easy.
Len May:Many obstacles. You know, genetics so you have doctors that don't understand genetics or don't think genetics are important. That's one thing. And we can address each one of them. I mean, genetics play a big role.
Len May:That's part of our genetic makeup. That's what we have as our coding. Now
Heath Fletcher:Is it the foundation of life on Earth?
Len May:It's the foundation of life on Earth. Thank you. But the thing is, you know, they they may be right about certain things, and this is where discussion ensues. And the discussions that we have to have have to be based on facts, not perceptions. So here are the facts, and now we can discuss real facts.
Len May:So you have your genetics. You're born with them, 50% from your mother, 50% from your father. However, some of those genetic encoding is turned on. So if you think of having a whole bunch of on off switches like a circuit breaker box. Yeah.
Len May:Some of them are in the on position. So our skin color, eye color, hair color, these are on. The rest of them or a lot of them are turned on based on lifestyle choices. So, yes, there are certain people that are correct. Genetics by themselves sort of give you your life's GPS.
Len May:Okay? Right. So it means it doesn't mean that you drove into the pothole or you went into this traffic jam. It means that your GPS is telling you there's a pothole or there is a traffic jam down there. So now you can take action specifically, lifestyle action, to be able to avoid that pothole.
Len May:That's one thing. So it's being able to communicate that accurately with health care professionals, scientists, etcetera. The second thing is the now so what factor. And the now so what factor is sort of the Achilles' heel of the genetic testing industry. I found out that I have a genetic predisposition to, you know, brain fog or whatever it is.
Len May:Now so what? What do I do about that? Right. And I was always frustrated by that because I do all these I I do all these tests, and they're like, now so what? What do I do?
Len May:So having a treatment plan, something that can be bookended. So you have your genetic do this. At least it gives me a course of action. And the third part of this, I can measure it. I can see how well that treatment protocol is working.
Len May:So that's the other challenges to overcome. Just dealing with with business day to day. And the other thing is, I think, privacy and security and conspiracy theories. I I mean, look at what happened '23 and me. Everybody's up in arms.
Len May:Oh my god. They're selling my genetic data. Well, we're individuals that are able to make decisions. If you go into a privacy policy and it says to you, you're agreeing to have your data go to a big pharma company, you made that decision. You're gonna blame the company.
Len May:I'm not I'm not saying they don't have a stake in in that as well, but just be aware of what you're doing. If you're going to a health care professional, you're going to a doctor, you're going to a clinic, you get the same kind of thing. However, they're under HIPAA. So your information is treated like a medical record. Have there been leaks of medical records?
Len May:Absolutely many. Something so as long as a company does their best to say, we are protecting your data just like a health care professional because we are HIPAA, we're GDPR compliant. And at the end the day, I don't care about your data. I'm not looking to market. This is not the outcome.
Len May:I'm looking for data that says that's de identified. They didn't that's anonymized. Say there's a 100 people that have a similar genotype to you that have taken this protocol and showed there was efficacious. We want our AI to learn from that, so it's a more personalized experience. And then the last thing, I think, is first to market in anything.
Len May:We have IP. We have patents. But, I'm a I'm a hockey fan. I'm a sports fan in general. And I remember somebody asked Wayne Gretzky, who, was the great one even though Ovechkin just passed him and goal scored, but he's still the great one.
Heath Fletcher:Former is great one.
Len May:Well, no. He's got more points than anybody. He's still kidding. He's Goals. Nobody's gonna catch the point total, I don't think.
Len May:But, anyway, they asked him, how do you score all these goals? And he said, I skate where the puck is gonna be. And this is sort of the mentality of life. If you're first, you can follow, and it's fine. But if you have a vision and you're first on an island, that's a very difficult place to be because everybody's questioning.
Len May:Well, we haven't seen it before, but somebody has to do it first. And that's okay. I don't mind being that person.
Heath Fletcher:And here you are. You're doing it. You're doing it first. That's very cool. I like that.
Heath Fletcher:What and so, I mean, you're you're working with, you're also working in an industry that has some controversy too. You're working in in cannabis. So we're specifically, have you had have you had hiccups along that? Of course. I mean, maybe explain some of that.
Heath Fletcher:I mean, how what's what's held you back and, you know, how I mean, were you I'm not super familiar with California cannabis laws. How long has it been legal in in
Len May:Yeah. It's the first state in in the country that Yeah. In 1996, it went medicinal. It's the third state for I hate the term recreational, but I'll call adult use. So we're not a cannabis company.
Len May:We don't touch the plant. We have nothing to do with cannabis. And I know you know this. I'm just kinda putting out You got Absolutely. Because this is the perception.
Len May:And the perception is, you know, when you're dealing with the endocannabinoid system, there's a lot of challenges. First of all, your your pigeonhole is a cannabis company. Now when you're dealing with anything that has to do with cannabis, we get shadow banned. Advertisers don't wanna advertise social media challenges, Google, you know, all these different things. And the reason why is because we have a test for your endocannabinoid system.
Len May:I can't tell a bot, but they should be trained what the endocannabinoid system is. We all have this. That's nothing to do with cannabis. It's part of our evolution. For millions of years, we evolved with an endocannabinoid system.
Len May:Now there are systems within our bodies or things within our bodies that we may no longer need. There is an appendix. Maybe at some point, it served a specific purpose. But evolution, we evolved out of that. But we did not evolve out of the endocannabinoid system and receptors.
Len May:We we have an, you know, we produce our own opioids. We produce our own dopamine, you know, and drugs and and exogenous substances are just that. They're ligands. They bind to receptor, and they release our own neurochemistry. So for us to have this perception that we this endo oh my god.
Len May:This has something to do with drugs and cannabis. It's not. It's your own pharmacy. Your own internal endogenous pharmacy is the best pharmacy in the world. That's what we get.
Heath Fletcher:Over fifth 1,400 different chemical combinations that our own body pumps out. Right?
Len May:Exactly. And and this is and this is the, I think, the the stigma that's associated with that. So that that's been that's been challenging to have one specific endocannabinoid system test. And like I said, we have many other tests. But that specific test, every single time that we, like, talk about that, we do have a lot of, challenges that are associated with that.
Heath Fletcher:So what are some of the other tests that you do too?
Len May:Yeah. So as I mentioned before, we have this, female hormone health test Right. The menopause biotype test. We have a male hormone health test, an anthropause test. We have skin.
Len May:We have a nutrigenomic test. It looks your, nutrients and supplements and vitamins, etcetera. We have a mental health test, and, there's several other ones. The the platform that we're building on, now that we just have, our latest patent on is gonna be the ability to dynamically create reports. So you're gonna be able to interact with your platform and ask it to show you a report that's show me all lens inflammatory markers.
Len May:Cross reference them with any metabolic markers. Look and see if there's any supplement to drug interactions or maybe supplement to supplement interactions. So you're gonna be building reports on the fly. Now we have our large language models set up for the reports that I just mentioned and a couple other ones. But in addition to that, we're gonna build dynamic reports on the fly because that's, you know, sort of the future, and that that creates speed.
Len May:And if the health care professional themselves need to be in partnership with the patient. So you and I, you and the health care professional, me and the health care professional are a partnership. We are in partnership for my health and wellness. So what do we know? We need to know everything about me so I we can create a personalized protocol, a path for, health and wellness before it actually not sick care, but before it actually expresses.
Heath Fletcher:Before something happens.
Len May:Exactly. And and the thing that I I I see in health care a lot is this thing of and we, especially as Americans, we're we're prone to this Mhmm. Is this I have a pain somewhere, so my elbow hurts. Okay. Well, what is the solution?
Len May:Well, I'm gonna get rid of your pain. And I want as a patient, I wanna get rid of my pain. And as a doctor, I wanna give you a injection, or I'm gonna give you something analgesic to to get rid of the pain. There should maybe should be a deeper question. Why is my elbow in pain?
Len May:Why am I showing pain? Well, there's nothing wrong with my elbow. I didn't, you know, hurt myself, you know, playing golf or anything like that. Could it be that there is something else that's creating an overactive immune response that I'm feeling as pain and inflammation, but it's coming from stress
Heath Fletcher:Right.
Len May:Extra cortisol secreted, lower pH level. So these are the conversations. And without knowing all these things about myself, I can't collaborate with my health care professionals. It's very easy for us to give get a shot, and we want that. And, you know, like Yeah.
Heath Fletcher:We want instant gratification, and we want the pain to go away. We're always looking to get rid of the pain.
Len May:But listen to it. It is saying something to you. It's a signal that maybe there is something else, and maybe not, but at least investigate it.
Heath Fletcher:Yeah. Absolutely. No. That makes perfect sense. And and, you know, it's it's being it's being studied more and more that, that the association with stress and and and disease in our body is so connected, and and we're not actually seeing the connection.
Heath Fletcher:We're not making the connection as individuals. Right? We're not saying, well, I always feel this way, and then somehow, when I react to a certain situation, I always physically feel another way, you know, like, or I, you know, I work really hard and then I go on vacation and the next thing you know, I've got I have the flu, you know, and and they're disassociating those things. So so I can come to you. I can get my genetic testing done.
Heath Fletcher:So it is a direct customer access. So I don't have to go through my doctor. I I I can I can come straight to you to get my testing done?
Len May:Yeah. Somewhat. So we are a b to b company. Okay. We work with health care professionals, and you don't, you know, you don't need a prescription or anything like that for No.
Len May:But our distribution is health care professionals. So what we do is we white label the test for the health care professional
Heath Fletcher:Okay.
Len May:Clinic, and they would administer that either you know, they can send it to your home or you can come into the clinic and do that. But we we do have some tests that are available direct to consumer, but we sort of shift our model more to a b to b. And the reason for that mostly is data. So if Right. You're a doctor and I'm giving you a 100 tests to sell your patients, now I'm getting a 100, data points or multiple data points from a 100 patients instead of selling just one to let, for instance.
Len May:So it it's a it allows us scale much faster as a business and allowed us to get better data as a as a company that's focusing on on data.
Heath Fletcher:It makes sense too because the health care provider then actually has information to help their patient and and then come up with some sort of strategic plan, health care plan with them as to, you know, how to mitigate some of those issues that might arise. Like, I mean I mean, we all have family, you know, genetically connected family diseases, whatever they may, heart disease or diabetes. They may not be legitimate. We may have the genetic potential for that. Of course, we've been told since we were a child that we live in a family with heart disease, so then you grew up believing that you're probably gonna die from heart disease just because of that.
Heath Fletcher:Oh, that may not be true because it may not have gotten turned on. Like you said, the gene may not have gotten turned on. It was there. I mean, it's probably in all of us, but it like you said, it has to be turned on by some sort of, situation or choice lifestyle choice. Right?
Len May:Yeah. It's a 100%. And and and this is the thing that people need to understand too. You know, genes communicate. You know, we computers communicate in binary code ones and zeros.
Len May:Genes have four letters, a c, a t, an a, and a g. And what also I want people to understand that 99.9% of us are identical. We always fight about our differences, but the differences are very small. It's a point 1% that makes us really different genetically. And if we understand where our genetic predisposition is, we can take action associated with that.
Len May:And as you were mentioning, the health care professional well, the health care professional is using this to as a tool to help them support their patient, not only with diagnosis, but also with a protocol. So now they're also getting blood values. They're getting biomarkers, and they're combining those biomarkers at baseline. So now you have your genetic predisposition. You have your biomarkers, and now you can make an educated treatment protocol for the patient and come back and measure to see those biomarkers epigenetically changed.
Len May:So you have methylation. You have other ways to be able to do that. And now you're completely bookending the experience because you're providing a personalized protocol. You're measuring how well that's working, and you're feeding back into the system so other people can get that kind of personalized, care.
Heath Fletcher:Interesting. So then and then all we ought to do is hook ourselves up to health monitors so that we can have real time updates on our our lifestyle on a day to day basis that feed back into the system and and keep adding to the data.
Len May:Oh, we have that as well. We can
Heath Fletcher:Is that
Len May:pull in data from Cool. Your, wearable devices, like your Fitbit, your Oura Ring, etcetera. All that goes into, that all goes into so so the idea is we will provide health care professionals at some point with real what's called polygenic risk score. So he takes all the data, and it says, you know, Len is at the eightieth percentile for this based on cohorts. So not based just on clinical data.
Len May:We have to have peer reviewed clinical studies
Heath Fletcher:Sure.
Len May:In order to create a report. But now we're not only using ClinVar or GWAS. We're not only using studies that are out in the on PubMed. We're also using real, real patient reported outcome data and biometric data. All that is combined, and it used to be very difficult.
Len May:Like, we've we've done ten, eleven clinical studies. We're in a phase two clinical trial at Harvard. We have a bunch of different studies, and we have to aggregate the data and analyze it for a study. It's a very cumbersome process.
Heath Fletcher:Yeah. I bet.
Len May:But with AI, it makes it so much easier. You prompt correctly, and you get the results, really back quickly. So that's that's the future.
Heath Fletcher:That is. It is. That is the future for sure. And it's this is, I mean, you're you're also sort of identifying very progressive thinking, forward thinking health care providers too because they're obviously, they're adopting this as a new way of helping their patients. So there's not you know, there's there'll be a a segment of doctors who will not buy into this.
Heath Fletcher:Right? But
Len May:Yeah. Yeah. You're right. You're right. It's the same kind of thing that I was saying earlier about doctors don't understand genetics.
Heath Fletcher:Yeah.
Len May:Some doctors don't want to understand. You know, I find it fascinating. I I never knew this before I took a a deeper dive. You know, doctors, health care professional have to have continual education. Well, okay.
Len May:But if you're going and you're not really, really educating, just kind of checking off that I want to get a CE credit so I can continue and have an active license, functional medical professionals, integrate integrative medical professionals. Those are the professionals the health care professionals gravitate towards this rather than, you you know, certain specialists. And there's stories. There's multiple stories. Like, you know, I'll I'll tell you a really quick story.
Len May:Maybe this will help to illuminate the use and how people can utilize this for their health and wellness isn't so I have a a friend who's a very financially successful business person. Started a venture, and, it didn't go well. I he was extremely stressed and depressed. And, you know, later on, we did his DNA test. He had some depressive markers, but he never really experienced that.
Len May:So he he went to a psychopharmacologist, and he received a antidepressant, drug. So he was driving in the Los Angeles area. He's not he doesn't live here, but he was driving here, he's had his family think his kiddie was taking him to a game or somewhere. And we have these canyon windy roads that, you know, you can, interesting drives. But he said he had this it's a feeling that of wanting to drive off the cliff.
Len May:And he goes, it was so real. Like, it was so scary, and he he just wanted to drive off the cliff. And he had to pull over. And he pulled over, his wife got out. And he's like, you okay?
Len May:He goes, no. I'm not okay. I should not be driving. Luckily, he was able to recognize that. Yeah.
Len May:Now when he went back and did his pharmacogenomics test, the drug that he was given was red, means that it wasn't for him anyway. And Wow. Also when he did his DNA test, he had treatment resistant depression genes. So that means that most of these drugs will not be efficacious. They won't work for him, but he will still experience the side effects of these drugs.
Len May:And I I was given a talk in San Diego to a bunch of pharmaceutical companies and and people working for big pharma, etcetera, and and doctors. And I asked, how many psychopharmacologists do genetic testing or even pharmacogenomic testing before they make before they prescribe a drug to their patients? How many do you think raise their hand? 1%. None.
Len May:Zero. Not one. Good. So this is this is how we want to educate. You're right.
Len May:Sometimes it's a pain. Doctors don't want to do this. It's an extra step. But if you can show doctors that they can generate revenue while helping their patients, while using a third party to crunch the data, give them better predictive inferences, those are the things it becomes a really true collaboration, and that's that's really our goal.
Heath Fletcher:Well and you'd like to think that, you know, they all everywhere most people in the health care industry went into it in the hopes that they're gonna help somebody someday, do something good, make someone else's life better. And so you have to you have to hope that that's at the heart or that's at the core of why they're doing this in the first place. And so if they can see this, maybe there's maybe there's hope that they might actually embrace it. But is this is this storytelling? Like, that was a great story.
Heath Fletcher:I mean, I is that do you leverage storytelling like that to to market? Like, to spread the word? That's how you do it?
Len May:That's that's how I do it. I wouldn't say that we do a really good job as a company market, and we can definitely do a better job. But this is how I this is how I get information. I remember stories. I always when I speak, I try to tell stories as well because I feel people remember, stories better than than facts.
Len May:You know, you're right about the
Heath Fletcher:doc. Yeah.
Len May:I appreciate you. You're right about the doctors. The the the nature of a health care professional is I wanna do good. I wanna help heal people. The the challenge is that some of them have ingrained biases and specialties.
Len May:So I tore my meniscus on my knee, and, you know, I started going to orthopedic surgeons. And, you know, people are telling me, easy. I'll open it up, snip it. It's like a hangnail. I'll snip it off, and it's done.
Len May:Okay. So I went to multiple surgeons like that, which which is their training, and they may be fantastic surgeons. And they could do a great job, and it may be easy for me, may be easy for them. However, is there an alternative? And if I started thinking critically, say, okay.
Len May:I'm a pretty active person. If you're gonna remove something I'm in my fifties. If you're gonna remove something out of my knee, you're gonna snip on one side, you're gonna snip on on the other side. I'm just logically thinking that the area is becoming shorter and shorter, smaller. Now I had this, like, a bigger area.
Len May:Now I have a smaller area. Well, if you continue to, be active, that area may be compressed even more. And I asked the surgeon. I said, if that's the case, what's gonna be the outcome? He goes, ten, fifteen years, you probably have to have knee replacement surgery.
Len May:Okay. Well, I'm not looking forward to that. Is there an alternative? So you have to search for alternatives. One alternative that I was told, you can do exosome injections, precursors to stem cells.
Len May:Even though stem cells are a weird, you know, thing in The United States where it's you have to go offshore to get rid of these kind of stem cells and all that stuff. But exosomes are compliant. You can do that. So what does that do? Well, if it takes, it can regrow tissue.
Len May:So for me, instead of removing, I have an option of regrowing.
Heath Fletcher:Right.
Len May:I'll take that. Yeah. Or somebody said you can take bone marrow, and you can spin it and create your own stem cells and platelets and inject it back. So I would rather try some other they call it alternative, but whatever. It's other therapies.
Len May:And if you're logically thinking, is it easier for you to remove? Yeah. Maybe. It's easier for you to do that, and don't worry about it. And and maybe exosomes won't take them.
Len May:Maybe they're expensive, and your insurance will cover the surgery. But you're gonna have to pay a few thousand dollars for exosomes, so you have to kinda weigh that. And this is where the collaboration with the health care professional comes in because you have to know all the options. And if you are an excellent surgeon and this is what you do, that's where you're gonna go to, and you don't have the bandwidth to learn that there's something else. It's too much.
Len May:And that's sort of, you know, you have to you you as a patient have to do your due diligence as well.
Heath Fletcher:Yeah. And and come to terms of what your what your limitations are, whether they're resources or or finances or what have you. But, yeah, it's a that that does become the bridge that everyone has to cross at some point. Right? But but on the on the other side of that, if we're implementing these kinds of approaches to our own health early on, we might avoid most of those situations later on.
Heath Fletcher:Now that might be something that insurance companies are gonna be more interested in in in pushing, right, as a way to avoid, on their end, payouts and and and etcetera. We hope so.
Len May:So Peter Attia, who's a a doctor, people can look up Peter Attia.
Heath Fletcher:I just got his book. I it just came. I haven't opened I haven't cracked the plastic on it yet.
Len May:So I I I just heard him speak. We were at a conference together, and he said this. He said this, which is fascinating. It goes along the lines of what you were saying. He said, what if we reversed Medicare and changed it and said everybody from the age of 18, let's say, I don't I don't know remember, Now everybody has Medicare, and you're subsidized you're subsidizing your health care, but you're actually creating preventative health care plans.
Len May:So and you are incentivized with lower payments, whatever that maybe they'll cover 50% of whatever your payment is. Maybe it'll be sorry. Based on milestones, based on things, actions that you take to work and help your own health and wellness.
Heath Fletcher:Right.
Len May:And at 65, you flip, and now you pay for your Medicare. But because you've worked so hard to prevent disease from expressing itself
Heath Fletcher:Yeah.
Len May:Now the cost for insurance companies and governments may be a lot less. I love that idea. Will it be implemented? I don't know because it's gonna be I know I'm gonna get a lot of flack for this pharmaceutical company. Is there a financial incentive to cure a disease, or do we like to or is it financially lucrative for pharmaceutical companies to continue to provide drugs to be able to treat the symptoms of disease?
Len May:I'm just putting it out there.
Heath Fletcher:It's a good question. It's a real question. Yeah. I don't know. I mean, what are the I mean, when we're talking about life insurance, for example, I mean, when when does not when when do they never have to pay out life insurance?
Heath Fletcher:I mean, eventually, everyone dies. So, I mean, the longer maybe for them, it's the longer they live, the then the the less likely they will have to pay that out. But I don't know. Maybe there's a maybe it will all have expiry dates soon.
Len May:Well, I think we we have this longevity. Longevity is is key, and everybody's trying to live longer. But I think living longer, being healthy is the key. I've experienced people end of life, last ten years of being sick and holding on. Yep.
Len May:You're not living your existing. And Yeah. Living longer but still being sick, at your old age is is no fun. So No. We have to be able to work on our health span.
Len May:And and look. One of the things you know, we talked about this whole endocannabinoid system, and it's not it's something that's discovered in only 1992, and it hasn't been studied. And a lot of health care professionals don't really even know there's a endocannabinoid system. And when you have this endogenous system that helps to maintain homeostasis or balance within our bodies, you should at least know what it is and how it works if you're, you know, treating the whole person. You know what the endocrine system is.
Len May:You know what the immune system is. You should know that. So we we need to do a better job educating, and we need to be open minded to other things. And, you know, there's eastern medicine. There's western medicine.
Len May:I always look at it as medicine. You know? There's no such thing as eastern, western, whatever medicine. We should be able to take all the knowledge and be able to address an individual's needs to prevent disease from from being expressed. And most of the drugs that pharmaceutical companies create and all this comes from plants anyway.
Len May:We've discovered it in a plant. We were able to synthesize it and create a molecule. And, that's that's when it becomes you know, this is a drug that's legal. This is a drug that's illegal. Well, who's really determining that and why?
Len May:So all philosophical questions that I'm not gonna be able to answer right now. No. But we can have a really good open debate about that.
Heath Fletcher:Yeah. Absolutely. Well, when you brought up homeostasis too, it's interesting to understand what that actually means and I don't know not everybody. I've only kind of come to the terms of understanding the of our internal systems and when is our body in a state of homeostasis? And it's when we're no longer in survival mode, when we're kind of living in a in a place where all our systems are working cohesively and and in in unity.
Heath Fletcher:But that's in our in our in our society right now. Few people at any given moment are living in a state of homeostasis. We're so we have a we have a very different lifestyle than what that's conducive for. So understanding more about our our our composition is definitely giving gonna give us an edge and maybe will help us learn how to achieve that state. Yeah.
Heath Fletcher:What, I have a few more questions here for you, but I have you can you discuss any sort of partnerships that have been pivotal in in, Endo's growth?
Len May:Yeah. Sure. I mean, lots of partnerships on the research side. So partnering with, you know, McLean, Harvard, Medical, Wayne State in, in Michigan, Shum in Montreal, you know, working with a lot of different researchers. That's been a pivotal, you know, acceptance because science needs to be validated.
Len May:And when you're doing clinical studies, that's one of the best ways that you step forward and say, okay. We're not just talking about this. We're actually proving, the efficacy of this stuff. The second, I would say, is some of our business partnerships have been fantastic. I already mentioned, doctor Jennifer Berman.
Len May:She's been a really big advocate for female hormone health and what we're doing with them. Also, you know, companies like Bella Vida to do hormone optimization in across multiple states. They're able to utilize our tests with, you know, all their patients. That's been that's been really beneficial. And, you know, companies like Illumina that provide our genetic sequencing and genotyping equipment.
Len May:You know, they provide the reagents. When we're when we're working with a buccal swab just to make sure that we're getting enough material genetic material from a cheek swab and sequencing and genotyping that correctly and seeing that, you know, we're getting 99.6% accuracy. There's a big chain, you know, the lab, the equipment, the the swab, the the reagents that go with it. These are all, you know, partners that that help us create, you know, an an accurate, way to, an accurate test and accurate report.
Heath Fletcher:Yeah. As part of this growth because you've you've been experiencing some growth recently. What, what is the plans? What are you where where are you going with this? Like, what is your plans for growth right now?
Len May:Well, my plan was always sort of as a a setting division to build the world's largest database for efficacy. That is that is the goal. How we get there, change along the way. There's no straight line. I know business is easy, so people say, I'm gonna do this, and you jump in, and it just happens that way.
Heath Fletcher:It just happens. Yeah. Wake up, and it's over.
Len May:But, you know, there there's been some, there's been some a windy roads and and detours and stuff. But the idea is still that. You know, people ask, what's your exit? Are you going public? I have I have none of that in mind.
Len May:We'll we'll entertain. You know, we have some m and a opportunities. The the fastest, most effective way that we can get and for our shareholders too. You know, people wanna make sure that there's, they benefit financially too. They trusted us, and I wanna make sure that, you know, they they have a return.
Len May:So I you have to consider all those different things, but the vision is still the same. It's to provide precision health and wellness while gathering data to create the largest, you know, repository on efficacy. So we can help health care professionals make better and more informed decisions. So that is still how we scale. And like I said, we decided and made a decision to go b to b for the most part, have OEM relationships.
Len May:And the reason why is if, Len is looking for a test in the Pennsylvania area, you can go on and say, well, here is the providers that can that can see you, that can help you and get the test that are closest to you. We'll geolocate that as well. So that's the scale. That's the plan, and we're we're open to opportunities. We're talking to a lot of interesting people about scale, and the best way that we can scale this more most effective for our shareholders as well is our customers.
Len May:That's probably the direction we're gonna go.
Heath Fletcher:And your probably your primary target audience is is health care providers at the moment. Right?
Len May:Yeah. Health care providers, clinics, doctors, functional, integrative. You know, we have specialists. Anybody that's doing hormone optimization working with female hormone health, you know, we have a test for that. We have, like I said, nutrigenomics.
Len May:So anyone that's in the in the supplement vitamin nutrient space, even food, even though we don't specialize in that. But you need to know where deficiencies are because if you're like I'll give you an example. If you're predisposed to iron deficiency and you decide you're gonna be a vegan and you're not supplementing that, well, yes, you can get a blood draw, but, you know, those blood draws are moments in time you have to see over time. I'll give you another quick story, my own personal stuff. I do not do really well with blood draws.
Len May:I I'm all tattooed if you can't see me. I've, I have tattoos. So it's not the needle. It's not the needles. It's something about the blood leaving my body.
Len May:I have no idea. So I was getting my physical, and I went to a integrative clinic. And I was getting my physical, and they said, you're doing a blood test. So I came in the morning, sat down. I said, I don't do well, no, you'll be fine.
Len May:You'll be great. I was like, alright. I'm just telling you. I I don't do well. So they get the needle, and I'm having a conversation.
Len May:At some point, I hear, Lisa, get in here. I don't know what's going on, but, apparently, I started sliding off the chair. And they're like, oh, let me give you some juice and all that stuff. So I got that. And, you know, like, you're good?
Len May:I'm like, yeah. I'm good. I'm good. Alright. We're gonna continue.
Len May:I'm like, what do you mean? They go, well, we have to pull the needle out because Yeah.
Heath Fletcher:It's
Len May:done. Because you were sliding off. We have to continue. Alright. So they finally got my blood work.
Len May:I come back to my doctor, and we're going over. Everything is great, except she's like, your blood glucose level is high. I'm like, really? I don't even I don't eat sugar. I don't eat meat.
Len May:I don't eat sugar. How is that? If you I don't know. It could be cortisol. Like, what do you mean?
Len May:I and I kinda know this already, but this is where the the relation with your health care professional is really important. Well, if through stress, I'm secreting a lot of cortisol, which can actually create, raise my blood glucose level. So if the doctor doesn't know this and if I don't know this, well, the first thing they would do is say, ah, you're prediabetic. Like, you let's put you in a, a GLP inhibitor or some something like that. Yeah.
Len May:She said, listen. I'm not really concerned about this. But if you are, I'll prescribe a glucose monitor, wear that for several weeks, and see. And that's exactly what I did. Nothing.
Len May:It went up. I was eating this Thai dish, and it was probably full of, like, corn syrup or some of that. It went up. Sure. But that's the case.
Len May:So understanding that your and stress is a huge part of it, your endocannabinoid system is responsible for for balance. And if you have different predispositions and you're secreting more cortisol, that cortisol can actually create some of those things. So, anyway, the point I'm trying to make is having this information alone is not enough. Having the information with a health care professional that knows how to interpret this and knows what to do, and that's where we're helping them, that's a collaborative experience instead of just
Heath Fletcher:doing a fill out. Yeah. Are are you finding naturopaths are interested in this too?
Len May:Oh, yeah. Absolutely. We we naturopaths, DOs, functional medical professionals, anybody that's in the space of preventative health and wellness. And, you know, I'd say health care versus sick care. You Yeah.
Len May:Go to your practitioner, and you have a symptom. They wanna address your symptom. They've never asked you or inquire. I used to go this, my doctor, doctor Chen, who is, and and she's a, doctor of, Chinese medicine, traditional Chinese medicine. I mean, first of all, she checks both pulses.
Len May:She yells at me that I brushed my tongue because it tells her everything. And when I have a symptom, she goes, oh, that's related to your kidney function. This is related to that. I've never had this conversation with my doctor before. What do you mean?
Len May:I have a pain in my throat. How what does that have to do with my kidney? I'm just giving an example. And that's Yeah. And that's the ability to be able to see the causation with this symptom.
Heath Fletcher:Yeah. Interesting. Yeah. And, you know, I well, you said this earlier. It ties in with our lifestyles.
Heath Fletcher:It's what how we see the world, how we react to the world. And and nine times out of 10, you don't even you don't even get asked that by a doctor. Oh, what is your lifestyle like? Oh, I think they ask, how much alcohol do you drink every week? Do you smoke?
Heath Fletcher:Do you do drugs? If so, how often? You know, like, they're very they're very isolated about lifestyle. You know? It's about and do you eat a lot of fat?
Heath Fletcher:You know? I mean, there's really nothing about how do you feel or how do you react to the world? Do you consider yourself a highly stressed individual? What is your work life? I mean, I it it it's all connected.
Heath Fletcher:Right? It's all tied together.
Len May:Well, the one of the reasons why they do that is because we have clinically validated essays for every health care professional. Like, the one that you say, what's my pain from one to 10? These are actual, and there's a sleep one, the Pittsburgh sleep score. There's ones that are clinically validated. They go through the motions of asking those.
Len May:You're you're absolutely correct. But, you know, genetics and epigenetics, so we're going back to genetics when we have these predispositions, how do we control our lifestyle? What's important in our lifestyle to turn things on and off? Well, the first thing is what we put in our bodies, the food, the nutrients that we consume, that can turn genetic expression on and off. What else?
Len May:Well, exposure to heavy metal, plastics, chemicals, that can. The other part is Trauma?
Heath Fletcher:Could trauma too.
Len May:That's what I was gonna say. Our own neurochemistry. So our own neurochemistry can actually, turn on epigenetic expression. So, you know, stress hormones, all those different things, they can turn them on and off. So these are the things that you know, once again, when you have fifteen minutes in the in The US, when you have fifteen minute doctor visit or you'd probably get the most reimbursement back from insurance for that visit, but what do you have time for in fifteen minutes?
Heath Fletcher:You know? To get to know that person and understand who they are.
Len May:Exactly. So that's that's a fine line between the business of medicine versus
Heath Fletcher:Yeah.
Len May:The practice. Remember, it's a practice of medicine.
Heath Fletcher:And Yeah.
Len May:Your body wants to heal. If you're putting your body in the right direction to heal and you have the right mindset, it's all gonna start healing itself.
Heath Fletcher:It's naturally programmed to heal constantly and and survive and and persevere and and preserve itself for the future. Exactly. Not just for us as an individual, but actually for the entire species working as a unit. Right? Couple things.
Heath Fletcher:The polymath that you talked about at the very beginning, I kinda related to that whole thing. So I'm gonna look into that because I may be I may be one of those two. The other thing was is I also pass out getting giving blood.
Len May:I bet you there's a
Heath Fletcher:gene for What's that?
Len May:I bet you there's a gene for that. I gotta do some research.
Heath Fletcher:There probably probably is. So a couple other things. What, you know, what is significantly or who or what has significantly influenced you in your journey? Is there any particular methodology or way of thinking or a book you've read or a person you've listened to?
Len May:You know, people talk about mentors. And sometimes your your mentors you don't have to meet your mentors. Your mentors can provide material that you connect to. So I've had many of those along the way. And I did have, you know, mentors also, but it's such a wide range of people.
Len May:So, like, people are Richard Branson, who's my ADD, ADHD hero. He had to open 400 companies because he had to, and he had the opportunity to. People like Tony Robbins who were there I I mean, I started out with Jim Rohn. I'm always working on personal development. I just came back from a a Joe Dispenza retreat.
Len May:So
Heath Fletcher:Oh, I love Joe Dispenza.
Len May:Yeah. And he You
Heath Fletcher:went to a retreat?
Len May:Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Heath Fletcher:Oh my goodness.
Len May:It's very, very intense.
Heath Fletcher:I wanna do that. It's bad.
Len May:But very intense. Anything you can do to work on you, especially being in a c suite of a company or or like, this you have to feed yourself to be able to, you know, feed others. So this is key in my life. People like Howard Stern, who I grew up listening to on a daily basis. I missed so many high school and college classes because I was listening to Howard Stern.
Len May:I mean, just an incredible interviewer. The way he tells stories and ask questions, you learn a lot from that kind of stuff. So you know, Victor Frankl, Men's Search for Meaning, one of the pivotal books I read in my life. Robert Green wrote 40 laws of power and and mastery and Malcolm Gladwell outliers. I I'm a I I don't like to read books anymore because they put me to sleep, but I I listen to books.
Len May:I did, like, 93 books, and this is back to the polymath. The amount of information I extract from books, that I listen to, and you have to figure out where you connect to. Some people are are audible. Some people are visual, all these different things, and that works for me. So extracting that information and being able to then regurgitate it back, that's been that's been a big thing in my life.
Len May:You know? And then my my dad has been a a pretty good fixture in my life on certain advice even though we don't agree on everything. He's a corporate guy. He's an ex engineer and all those stuff. So he's very linear thinking, but it's really good to have that perspective.
Len May:And then, like, motivation. My daughter is a huge motivation in my life. There's a sense of meaning. And then when you read, like, Victor Frankl, man's search for meaning, when you have meaning in your life and you truly connect to that meaning, it makes those obstacles in your life be less sort of, how do I say that, apocalyptic. They're Yeah.
Len May:You can you can kind of put them into perspective. You know? And it's okay. What's the worst thing that can happen? Okay.
Len May:So, you know, I'll have to move or I'll sell my house or whatever that is. You know? And and I've had things like that. I went through a divorce. I was homeless.
Len May:I've had failures. I've had all these things that happened in my life, and the resilience is sort of like your muscles. You know? You go to the gym and you work your muscles and you're in pain, but that pain only makes your muscles be stronger the next day or next couple days. So you have to understand that it's gonna be okay, and it's temporary.
Len May:It's all temporary.
Heath Fletcher:Change is the constant. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, you're you you actually just spoke about to to the last year of my life.
Heath Fletcher:My my wife actually went in for a stem cell transplant last March. So we were completely removed from society, thrown back into COVID measures, masks, a home alone, you know, disconnected from people. And then we actually spent four months in another city where she went through a treatment. And then that whole that whole I have not read probably 10 books in my entire life. And in the last year, I've read about 30.
Heath Fletcher:For some reason, I don't know, out of left field. So I you know, I you just met a lot of those authors that you just recited. I surrounded myself with those people for that time frame, and I read things to my wife during the process too. And Joe Dispenza was, you know, probably not the biggest figure in all of that. But another one I I'll just share with you is Gabor Mate.
Heath Fletcher:I don't even know him.
Len May:Yeah.
Heath Fletcher:Very great book. There's a couple of them at around the shelf too. So, anyway, yeah, that kinda really related to what you just went and what you just said. That's been a big part of my life in the last year. So Great.
Heath Fletcher:I want to just, you know, recognize it's not an elephant in the room, but you're surrounded by music. You have a podcast that you talk about music that I I checked into. And so you have and you have a you have a history in music. So tell us about what's going on with the music back there. And then you also have to share with me your favorite album because then and we'll wrap
Len May:it up. That's a that's a tough one. But music music has been a part of my life. So, you know, I I grew up in Philly, and my mom hated air conditioning. So in the summertime, it would get so hot.
Len May:I have, like, a little fan in my window, and I couldn't sleep. So I would have, like, a little radio and record cassette recorder. I'm old. So I'll put that to the speaker, and I would
Heath Fletcher:I had one of those too.
Len May:I make tapes, and I make, like, mixtapes. Oh, yeah. Cut the tapes and, do all that stuff. So music was a huge part of my life since I was a a kid, basically. And when I got kicked out of the house and I was no job, no home, and I was just graduating high school, and I was gonna go to college, I would I would I would go to a record store.
Len May:Tower Records was my record store. And then I end up getting a job at Tower Records, and I became a music buyer and all that stuff. So I really got thrown into the business of music. I did some, some other stuff after that. I had a a music company called Mayday Music, but it's been a huge part of my life.
Len May:No. I I played some instruments here or there, but that's not really what it is. I I love discovering music. I love listening music, and I thousands and thousands and thousands of CDs and and vinyl and all that stuff. So every day at lunch, because I have to I have structure.
Len May:So my lunchtime is structured, and what I eat for lunch is my my ex wife used to tell me all the time. I was like, why do you always eat the same thing? I'm like, because I don't have to think about it. I'm like, there's only three options, and I eat one of the three, and that's it. I don't have to think about it.
Len May:I'm not wasting time. Probably not not fun for somebody, but, you know, that's that's my thing. So I would grab an album from my collection. I'll put it on, and I will listen to music as I'm making myself lunch or whatever. And then I started this record of the day.
Len May:So I started posting myself. Whatever I grab, I would share with people on social media, and and people seem to like it. So very eclectic taste from, you know, from anything from, like, John Coltrane to Wu Tang Clan to Stevie Wonder and everything in between.
Heath Fletcher:Amazing. It's great. Well, I I I the last it's only been a few days, but I've been enjoying watching your picks, and I've been looking them up on just check them out. So I I appreciate that.
Len May:So The the number one album, my favorite album, it's it's such a it's such a difficult thing to say because it varies. Like, it varies in the moment. I can grab my Led Zeppelin too, and I can put it on and listen to every single song. But I can also do the same with, you know, Stevie Wonder inner visions, and I can do that with Jameriqua, and I can do that with, kinda blue and mild. So it all depends.
Heath Fletcher:Yeah.
Len May:I'm either in my in my black sabbath phase. Yeah. I'm either in my Black Sabbath phase or I'm in my Amy Wanahouse phase.
Heath Fletcher:So Yeah. Exactly.
Len May:It it really is, like, a difficult thing to say. And, like, on my podcast, I ask people, like, tell me five albums you would listen to for the next year. And even that's difficult for me. People ask me
Heath Fletcher:That would be hard. Yeah. Yeah.
Len May:But that's at least I can kinda do that, like albums that I won't get sick of. But, yeah. So that that's the one that kinda that's will stand out today.
Heath Fletcher:Awesome. Awesome. Lynn, thank you so much, man. I I really enjoyed meeting you and talking with you, and you had a lot to share. So I really appreciate you joining me on this episode, and I think everyone listening will have enjoyed hearing from you as well.
Heath Fletcher:So maybe we'll do it again sometime.
Len May:Appreciate it, man. Anytime.
Heath Fletcher:Okay. Thank you. Okay. That was a great conversation with Len May from, EndoDNA. Super passionate guy.
Heath Fletcher:Really like his perspective on on things, and he, tells great stories. So, if you wanna learn more about their AI powered DNA analysis, go to end0dna.com. Loved hearing about the endocannabinoid system. I did not know a lot about that, so I'm gonna do a little more digging and find out more about that as well. Eliminated the cannabis relation between this company and and that product.
Heath Fletcher:They do not they are not selling in cannabis products. So there you go. Be innovative, stay ahead of the curve, and, think outside the box. Great advice from Len May. And, pop over to his podcast and, listen to some great music.
Heath Fletcher:Everything is personal. Find that anywhere you listen to podcasts. Hope you have a great day.
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