Transforming Pharma Consulting: The Fractional Model with Mary Hames
Good day. Welcome to the Healthy Enterprise. And if you're a return listener, thanks for coming back. And if you're new, thanks for joining us. Today's episode, I'm speaking with Mary Hames.
Heath Fletcher:Mary is the CEO and founder of Biotech Pharma Solutions. Mary has a background in science but discovered an entrepreneurial itch along the way and decided to launch her own consultancy firm. Her and her team are dedicated to helping biotech and pharmaceutical companies prepare for commercialization in a more agile and low risk manner. I'm sure you wanna hear more as do I. So let's get started, and welcome to the show.
Heath Fletcher:So hi, Mary. Thank you very much for joining me today. I'm looking forward to hearing your story and hearing about biologic and and how you got to where you are. So maybe start by making your introducing yourself and and explaining who you are and what you're doing right now.
Mary Hames:Yeah. Sure. Thank you, Heath. It's a pleasure to be here. I'm Mary Haynes, CEO and founder of Biologic Pharma Solutions.
Mary Hames:We are a biotech and pharmaceutical consulting firm. So we support biotech and pharma clients that are launching new products or, you know, going through a period of flux. You know, honestly, it seems like everybody's going through a period of flux right now.
Heath Fletcher:Who's not in flux?
Mary Hames:But we we have a bit of a niche in rare disease neurology and radio pharm. So that's what we mostly gravitate towards. But we're just helping companies that need help getting to that commercialization stage.
Heath Fletcher:Right. So and I was reading about you a little bit. It's kind of like a in a sense, fractional. I think you use even use that word on your website. So you're kind of filling a space where there's not necessarily the affordability of all that expertise to be on staff or on board or whatever.
Heath Fletcher:So you're filling that gap until they get to a stage where they actually can fill those positions at a full time basis. So that's very that's probably extremely helpful, especially in the early stages.
Mary Hames:That's right. For for younger companies, it's particularly attractive. So smaller companies, maybe they don't have a commercially approved product yet. It's very risky to build out a full medical team prior to knowing your data and knowing how successful commercialization is gonna be. And, you know, despite that, companies really need it.
Mary Hames:So, you know, some of the work that we do includes preparing the market, talking to physicians and clinicians, making sure that folks are aware of this new therapeutic, how it works, you know, what clinical trials are available. And that's important work to be done prior to commercialization. But if you're in a situation where you're not sure if the FDA is gonna approve your drug or you're not sure you're gonna make it to the next phase phase or you're not sure, what's gonna happen, it can it can be very risky to hire a bunch of people to do all that work. So, you know, hiring and firing is very difficult these days. And so if you if you hire a bunch of people and then you have to let them go, it's hard.
Mary Hames:It's hard on the people. It's hard on the company. It's very expensive. And so one of the things that we do with this fractional concept is we give people basically a full team, but just pieces of the team. And for these smaller companies, it works out really well because they can get some amount of the field support that they need, some amount of the strategy.
Mary Hames:They don't have to hire six or seven different people. They can use our fractional team, and then they get a little bit of each of those things that they need. And some of the some of what people really like about that is that it can it can shift over time. So, you know, we're working with a client that's that's in that situation where they're small and they're they're growing and they're approaching phase three, and they their needs shift pretty often, you know, quarter by quarter.
Heath Fletcher:Right.
Mary Hames:There's there's big changes in the initiatives. So, you know, part of the year, maybe they'll get a whole lot of support on medical communications, publications, responding to requests for medical information. And then once their trial gets up and running, they need a lot more help with engaging with the clinical trial sites. Know, trial identification, identification of sites, communication with referral sites. There's, you know, very different work.
Mary Hames:And so they really need different people to do that. You know, the person that's in the field isn't always the best writer and vice versa. So it's nice for them because they can shift. What we're also finding is now, you know, we we started with this model of of younger, smaller pharma companies. But what we're finding, you know, as I mentioned, everybody's in flux.
Mary Hames:Larger companies find this model very attractive as well because we can fill gaps. You know? So a company that that has vacancies, they may wanna use us for some period of time until they get until they get shifted to where they wanna be.
Heath Fletcher:Right.
Mary Hames:We've had companies that, you know, maybe they're considering a merger or a sale of a product, and they don't wanna hire any new people because chances are those people aren't gonna be around. So they can hire us in these transition times because we are able to we're able to move in and out easily. You know?
Heath Fletcher:Yeah. You're really savvy. Right. Yeah.
Mary Hames:Our contract is such that, you know, they don't have to give us tremendous notice. It's okay. We don't need you anymore. Bye.
Heath Fletcher:Yeah. No hard feelings.
Mary Hames:Yeah. No hard feelings. And we expect that. You know, we we expect that we're gonna be short term or as needed, and so it's easy for everybody when that's when that's the right time. You know?
Mary Hames:So we worked with a company this past year, and they, you know, they were expecting pivotal top line data, and they really didn't know whether the data were gonna be positive or negative.
Heath Fletcher:Right.
Mary Hames:And so they brought us on and said, you know, we'll plan for six months. If the data are positive, we're gonna push forward. We have all these things to do. You can help us bring on our full time team. If the data are negative, you'll help us shut down the program, and you'll walk away.
Mary Hames:You know? And so that was a great solution for
Heath Fletcher:Yeah.
Mary Hames:All of us. So I think, you know, with with the uncertain uncertain nature of of seemingly everyone now, I I think people are people are really keying in on this concept and seeing the advantage.
Heath Fletcher:It must be interesting. And you like you said, you're explaining that you either shut it down or you help them move forward. It must be, you know, depending on how long you're there, you you must become part of the part of the family in a sense where you're actually doing the work, helping them get to where they go. So it would be, if you had to shut down, you share in their disappointment too or their you know, it must be interesting.
Mary Hames:It it really is. You know, we we do develop good relationships with the company, but I think working in pharma, the the most difficult thing when you have to shut a program down is is the patients. So, you know, patients get so excited about these therapeutics, and they're so hopeful and optimistic. And, you know, when you have to shut a program down, they're they're sorely disappointed patients and families.
Heath Fletcher:Yeah.
Mary Hames:And so that's I think that's the hardest part because you wanna do that carefully and, you know, and and share the data and share why, you know, why it's not a viable drug candidate anymore. But, you know, with with our companies, at at least we we can always work with them again. You know? Call us back when when your next program is ready for this stage. And, so that's been nice.
Heath Fletcher:So how did what got you to this? Like, what what what do you know, you woke up when they went, oh, I'm gonna start this company. You know, was it a sort of a series of events that led you to this place or what what what motivated you to do that?
Mary Hames:Yeah. It's it's sort of a broad question. You know, I think those of us that have an entrepreneurial itch sort of have it forever. You know, there's always a little piece in the back of your head. I could do that, or, maybe I could do this.
Mary Hames:And for me, I've always had a little bit of an entrepreneurial lean. And I got an executive MBA from Kennesaw State, and that that program was was really a great push to help help me feel prepared to to lead a company. And so, you know, during that time, we we were writing a business plan as a team, I had this business idea, and my team helped me develop it out. And and I started that company, and that company failed. So, you know, bad timing, you know, maybe I I have all these these thoughts.
Mary Hames:You know, maybe if I had done this differently, maybe if I had stuck with it a little longer. And I started the company just a couple of months prior to COVID, so that was really tricky. Mhmm. But, you know, I I still wanted to do it. I still I still wanted to to to do my own thing.
Mary Hames:So, you know, I've I've been in pharma for quite a long time, and I've seen a lot of different companies do things very differently. But one of the things that I that I have seen a number of times is just that scramble towards commercialization of a new drug. And it's it's very common that that in this flux, things are done very inefficiently. And so, you know, I I knew I wanted to start my own company, wanted to lean on my my skills and things I knew how to do. And I I like change, and I think that fits nicely again with the fractional medicals.
Mary Hames:I have I can work on different projects at once.
Heath Fletcher:Right.
Mary Hames:Right. But I like I like moving on to to different things and growing something and building something. So for me, you know, that that growing phase of preparation for some event, you know, top line readout, commercialization. You know, once once things are running smoothly, I I tend to get bored. Right.
Mary Hames:I want I want the next challenge and the next project.
Heath Fletcher:I can relate to that.
Mary Hames:Yeah. So so for me, this just worked out as a way to continue to have new projects that were fun and exciting and challenging and not having to quit my job and get a new job, you know, with every with every drug approval cycle. So, it's for me, it's a nice marriage of of interest and background and skills with with this entrepreneurial lane. You know, for for me, the other thing about having having my own company is is doing things the way I wanna do them. So I care a lot about the culture of the company and and how people feel and how people are taken care of and flexibility that people have.
Mary Hames:And so, you know, over the years, I've always put those things in my pocket. When you have experiences at companies, well, one day, I'm gonna do it this way. And so I like doing that. And honestly, me, that's one of the things that keeps pushing me to to stay motivated is thinking about all the cool things that I wanna do for the team, with the team as we grow. So so that's also a nice a nice rewarding motivation for me for Yep.
Mary Hames:Pursuing the business.
Heath Fletcher:Yeah. It sounds like that's kind of you're you're kind of intertwining that in with your values that that's how you're gonna lead this company. And and and earlier, we kind of uncomfortably giggled about the fact that your first company didn't survive and, you know, I mean, anybody else who's experienced that would uncomfortably giggle the same way. It's not anything to laugh about at the time, but it is certainly an experience that you don't forget and it's something that you we learn from. And I think that's the important part is understanding what we take away from that.
Heath Fletcher:But it sounds like you've sort of infused a real sort of sense of a real vision for where you want your company to to go, which is really important in in leading a group. So when you when you talk about exciting things you look forward to, what kind of things have you got in the works? Like, what are you thinking about when you think about, I can't wait to get our team to this point. Like, where are you wanting them to to get to?
Mary Hames:Yeah. Great question. So, you know, medical affairs consulting is is complex. There are a lot of firms doing this. There are a lot of people in in medical affairs consulting, and I think a lot of people aren't doing it well.
Mary Hames:You know, working in pharma, you know, directly for a pharmaceutical company in the past, I've hired consultants, and and I've had I've had a mixed bag. You know, I've also hired full time employees and had, you know, great and not so great experiences.
Heath Fletcher:Sure.
Mary Hames:But I think that what what I look forward to is I I truly believe that with fractional medical that we can shift the dynamic of of biotech and pharma launches because I honestly think it makes so much more sense to have a contract team during these periods than hiring FTEs. Years ago, pharma companies had their own clinical operations entirely. And then, you know, with the conclusion of the clinical trials, everybody got fired. And it was just how it was done. And then folks figured out, well, we can have a clinical research organization or CRO come do the study, and and we just retain them for that, and then they leave.
Mary Hames:And then we don't have to worry about all this hiring and firing. And now almost no one has their own clinical research. You know, virtually everyone uses these CROs. And so I really see I really see factual medical taking over medical affairs prior to commercial and then potentially some after, you know, when there are these periods of flux or change. So that's that's my big, hairy, audacious goal is is taking over all of all of pre commercial medical.
Mary Hames:In addition to that, you know, we've got other therapeutic areas, more of a more of a smaller, medium term, medium term goals. We've got some other therapeutic areas we'd like to pull in. You know, we've we've done a lot in rare neurology and radio pharm, but we we wanna expand into other therapeutic areas. So so we've got we've got a lot on the horizon.
Heath Fletcher:Yeah. Sounds like it. What do you, what do you see on a on a daily basis? Where are your challenges, you know, both as a business owner and leader and also from for your company? Where do you where do you guys find the challenges in this in this environment?
Mary Hames:Yeah. I think with consulting, I talked to a lot of consultants before starting a consulting firm, you know, about the the pros and cons. And, you know, there are a lot of folks out there that are just independent consultants. And so they just, themselves, do the work. And a lot of those folks told me, you know, consulting work is is great.
Mary Hames:It's flexible. You get paid well. It's lonely, and there's a lot of feast or famine. You're either you're either drowning in work or you have nothing.
Heath Fletcher:Right.
Mary Hames:And so, you know, my hope with this team dynamic of having this fractional team and multiple projects at once. So my goal is that over time, we'll we'll minimize that. You know, we'll have because we have multiple projects, we're diversifying the risk of of projects coming in and out, so we'll have less feast or famine. And because we have each other, there there won't be that loneliness. As a as a sole consultant working for a company, you're often an outsider.
Mary Hames:You know, you're not really part of the team, and so that that sometimes uncomfortable. So at least we have each other. You know? So when we work with a company, you know, like you said, we talked earlier about how you develop relationships with that company. You know?
Mary Hames:Right. So we have relationships with each other as well. So, you know, across different companies, we still have at least our team that's consistent. But I think even with even with these things that I'm that I'm trying to do to mitigate those, there is still a bit of that stair step of growth. You know, you you have to have a certain threshold of people to get a certain level of project.
Heath Fletcher:Right.
Mary Hames:You you know, getting to that next phase, you have to have a certain amount of work to get to that next stage. And so I think one of the challenges for us right now is that balance of of having the right amount of people to get the next project without stretching ourselves too thin, you know, and not having too many people for not enough work during that stair step. So for us, you know, the growth has not been a a pretty linear. You know, it's it's more violent stair steps. Yeah.
Heath Fletcher:So, you know I mean, it's because you're you're like you said, it's it's a you don't know. In in some cases, it's feast or famine in the sense that you can only do you can only have so many clients on the go. Right? Because capacity is always a concern. It's a big concern in a lot of companies.
Heath Fletcher:But particularly when you're a little bit smaller and a little bit more, you know, you can't have, you know, 50 projects on the role at the same time. Right? And I think, like you said, diversity is important. You've kind of managed to some areas of of of the industry will not be doing so well. And if you've got your eggs in a few different baskets, then you kinda got a little bit of security there.
Heath Fletcher:But yeah. How do you see overcoming that? You know, is it is it growth? Is it, like, being bigger and having a little bit more of a a bigger client base going on at any given moment? Or
Mary Hames:I think so. I think I I my hope my hope is that is the solution to just continue to get bigger so that we continue to have more diversity. And I've I've believed that with more diversity will come more stability and more predictability, But I don't really know that. I'm I'm I I assume that it is, but we'll see.
Heath Fletcher:That's the exciting part. Yeah. That's what keeps that's the that's what keeps you in there, Mary, is that
Mary Hames:That's right. That's right. Honestly, sometimes I really do feel like, you know, it's just time to get popcorn, and and I can't wait to see how this turns out. You know? So it is it is exciting, and I try to remind myself of that that that, you know, during these times that are that are scary, it's it is as exciting as it is scary.
Heath Fletcher:Mhmm.
Mary Hames:You know? But in the moment, it can just feel scary. And so I think that's a lot of of the feeling of the sentiment when you're when you're in this in this seat, in these situations is it's Mhmm. It's fear. And so you had asked earlier, you know, thinking about others that are that are in the same space.
Mary Hames:I I would recommend trying to recognize that fear and and recognize that it it may not just be fear. It may may be excitement, and it can be reframed as excitement.
Heath Fletcher:Right. Yeah. You can you can shift that energy from more of a retreat. Well, that fight or flight. You know?
Heath Fletcher:It's like you wanna fight if you can you can run away or you can just dig in and and fight through it.
Mary Hames:Yeah.
Heath Fletcher:And so it's yeah. You're right. It's about taking picking which direction you wanna take. So but entrepreneurialism is not for the faint of heart. I mean, you gotta you gotta go at it with a bit of courage and a bit of well, like, you know, being curious about the unknown, what's what's ahead.
Mary Hames:Yes. Yeah. I think you you need a a healthy risk tolerance.
Heath Fletcher:And and
Mary Hames:I think it helps to be somewhat competitive, you know, to want to to to win, to get to that next stage. Can we make it here? Can we make it here? You know, achieving achieving milestones and goals that you set is is super fun.
Heath Fletcher:That must help your clients because you're you kind of walk their shoe you walk in their shoes too in the sense that they're entrepreneurs as well. Right? They're startups and they're, you know, fueling a dream and they have goals and you're there to support them because and you also understand you understand their fears and their trepidations and and what what the potential outcomes could be, failure or success. So you probably are able to kind of, you know, even guide them that way, do you think?
Mary Hames:I think so. It's it's not uncommon for the smaller companies to have, you know, their their founder is can be the scientist that developed the cells that are being used. And so, you know, that's a very unique position because they certainly haven't brought a drug to market. You know, they've Right. Been a scientist their entire careers, and they've developed this really amazing and wonderful thing, and it is their baby.
Heath Fletcher:Yeah.
Mary Hames:And so it can be it can be very tempting when you're in that situation to wanna touch every single part of everything, which is a mistake. But easy to wanna do that because it is your baby. So, you know, some of the advice that we do give to to those folks is take people that are good and that you trust and let them do that work. You know, you you do this part. We will take care of this part.
Mary Hames:We will work on this together. We love it too. You know? But, yes, we we we do help our our companies in that way. And I think it it can be easier for us to help to help companies that are in flux, because we have less risk because of it.
Mary Hames:So when we're a full time employee at a company that may not survive, you know, or that that that that product may not be around next year, sometimes your motivations are a little different.
Heath Fletcher:Well, you got psychologically, you got one foot out the door all the time.
Mary Hames:Yeah. And so for us, because we're prepared either way, we're we're able to come at it from, a less stressed perspective. Yeah. You know, this is what we're gonna do, and this is this is how we're gonna do it, and it's it's gonna be fine. We don't have to have that additional weight of, well, if if this doesn't get approved, now I don't have a job.
Heath Fletcher:Right.
Mary Hames:You know, it's more, this doesn't get approved, we're gonna do this and this and this and shut it down and move on.
Heath Fletcher:Right.
Mary Hames:You know? So I I think that that I think that that helps
Heath Fletcher:Yeah.
Mary Hames:All our companies. You know, it's it's a heavy weight when you know that you have people on your team that that are counting on you to support their families. Mhmm. And, you know, and that additional weight of of letting a bunch of people go is is hard. So I think that working with a company like us is easier because we don't have that additional burden.
Heath Fletcher:Right. Exactly. And I think you brought up a good point too, that whole trust thing. Entrepreneurs are, you know, notoriously famous for not providing not not allowing or giving out enough trust to allow them to focus on things. Like you said, the scientist needs to stay the scientist and, you know, can't be the CFO and the CMO and the COO.
Heath Fletcher:You gotta the the sign the founder or the scientist has to keep focused on what got that company to where it is right now in the first place. But you you find that in in every industry, almost every company, that same sort of, like, this is my baby. I can't let go. I've gotta be involved in every decision that's made, but it's not actually true. That's really kind of that's a crippling approach.
Mary Hames:I think it is. And, honestly, I don't think it's smart for the longevity of your company either. You know, you've gotta have your mind on the the next stages. And, you know, even if you're early on, how am I gonna exit this? You know, I've got some some friends that are that are running companies as well.
Mary Hames:And, you know, one of the things that we talk about sometimes is, particularly in these roles, consulting, where you have clients that brought you on because they wanna work with you. Right. But that's not that's not sustainable. You know? So so it's really important to to identify those people that are on your team that can do that work as well, transition that work to them, trust them to do it so that you can go catch fish and strategize and think about what are those next stages.
Heath Fletcher:So,
Mary Hames:you know, that's one really lovely thing that that we've been able to reach this year is I'm I'm in a place now where I'm doing less of the actual work. You know? So we have clients now that that are entirely handled by the team, and I get these lovely updates, And, and I'm sort of arm's length away. And I really think that that's long term. I I would like for all the clients to be that way.
Mary Hames:You know? But it can be a tough transition if you have people that you know so well, and they really want you. But I do think for the longevity of the company, you you've gotta do that. Right. You've delegate and and feel good about it.
Mary Hames:They're not gonna do it they may not do it to your best. You know? Right. It's probably It's
Heath Fletcher:a it's a it's a transition phase. Right? I mean, for you, doing it too, I'm sure there's aspects that where maybe you're you kinda miss a little bit of the frontline work as well. But, you know, that's a that's a transition phase where you move from that role to being, you know, the lead and, you know, you take on different aspects of of the business. So but I think every business owner always thinks that too.
Heath Fletcher:It's like, well, I I miss that being in the in the in the trenches and, you know, being part of it. But Yeah. You actually become a part where you actually can your your your experience makes you more of a mentor, you know, and that that has a lot of value too. So learning to make that that shift and opening I think also do opening the doors to to other perspectives and different approaches and Yeah. Because as as time moves on, you know, things shift all over the place.
Heath Fletcher:So allowing a little bit more fluidity with other ideas is also good too. In your world, you're helping you're basically helping a business evolve and move through various stages. Mhmm. How do you find clients? So you you I mean, you have to market your business just like every other company.
Heath Fletcher:And then, usually, those companies that you're also working with always have to end up going to market at some point. Do you ever do you make it to that stage a lot? So there's two questions. How do you find clients, and then how do you help your clients market their products?
Mary Hames:Yeah. So good questions. So I you know, personally, and several of us on the team working for pharma have taken products fully through clinical trials to launch. Since at biologic, we have not yet brought a product fully to launch. Oh.
Mary Hames:You know, I don't we we probably will. You know? But but so far, we haven't. We've been entirely in that precommercial space. We we have spoken with several clients, and we've got one coming on that have commercially approved products, but not we haven't actually been as a company, we haven't we haven't crossed that threshold.
Mary Hames:So, so to answer your question, we we haven't done that yet. And then
Heath Fletcher:But you got the experience to do it when the time comes.
Mary Hames:We can. We can and we will. Yeah. Honestly, often, once you get really close to commercialization, when you're in those last six months, even a year, the the company really shifts to with with large commercial teams, really a strong commercial focus. And at that point, it's it's full steam ahead.
Mary Hames:There's there's typically not a lot of, oh, maybe, you know, it's it's full steam.
Heath Fletcher:Yeah.
Mary Hames:You know, that's that's a point where we're so far, we're transitioning out. Now that being said, you know, you asked how we how we find clients. So starting out, it was people that we had worked with before, and we still have some of that. You know, the the folks that we've worked with before knew us, loved the work we did. And so, you know, hey.
Mary Hames:We're we're consulting now. Do you have any work for us? So we started there with with people we knew, and then we're very busy with that. And then got to a point where we realized that it you know, at some point, if we're gonna continue to grow, we've we've got to reach out to some people that don't already know us.
Heath Fletcher:Right.
Mary Hames:So how do we do that? And, you know, we're a group of scientists. We're a group of, you know, PhDs and PharmDs and and traditionally not strong in marketing. So so we didn't probably still don't really know what we're doing with marketing, But we but we have done some things that have worked, and we've done some things that haven't. So I feel like for us, the most impactful thing that we can do that we have done that's resulted in new business is is presenting to groups of potential clients inside of meetings.
Mary Hames:So, you know, presenting the work that we've done, presenting case studies is is impactful. And so that's that's been our best best motive of getting new clients thus far. But then there's a whole ball of wax around that. You know, where do we go to do that? Who for us to do it?
Mary Hames:Should it be me? Should it be the lead of the medical team? Should it be someone else? You know, what exactly should we present? And so we're still honing that.
Mary Hames:There's a lot of different meetings in in biotech pharma. So, you know, what which meetings are gonna be the most fruitful. You know, calendars matter. So we'd really love to go to this meeting, but there's this other thing during that same week. So there's a lot of factors on deciding when and where to go.
Mary Hames:Right. We have honed in on presentations to groups is has been the most effective
Heath Fletcher:Great.
Mary Hames:I think our biggest failure has been cold emails.
Heath Fletcher:Right.
Mary Hames:You know, our our cold emails are just terrible. Terrible ROI on those. And it
Heath Fletcher:They can be tough. Yeah. They're a yeah. They're they're a it's a long game with those.
Mary Hames:Yeah. And I I think, you know, the the bulk of our customers are really or our, you know, our our key demographic is really chief medical officers, you know, CEOs, VPs of medical. And I think those folks probably get already baseline get too many emails. Yeah. And then a cold email is just not at all welcome.
Mary Hames:So so we're we're experimenting. We're we're trying to build our online presence, which is also slow. We're starting to do search engine optimization, which I think will be fruitful, and we probably should have started that a year ago. Mhmm.
Heath Fletcher:It's a long game too.
Mary Hames:Yeah. Yeah. So, you know, I've been I've been trying to define our digital strategy, and and it has it has changed a lot Mhmm. From the outset. But I think right now, probably our two or if we're if we were gonna put two buckets, it would be congress presentations on who we are and what we do, including case studies, and then search engine optimization.
Mary Hames:That's where we're that's where we think we're gonna get the most bang for our buck right now.
Heath Fletcher:And when you find when you deliver that presentation, are are you finding people are surprised to hear that there's this this this structure available to them? Are they are they, you know, not not suspicious, but are they kind of cautious about this, or or do or do you find that people are extremely excited and and want to learn more?
Mary Hames:Yeah. I think the the best feedback that we've gotten has has really been, oh, that's a really good idea. I don't know why we're not doing that already. So I think, honestly, that's that's the most common feedback, and and that
Heath Fletcher:is good feedback.
Mary Hames:The most welcome feedback. There are a lot of folks that just timing isn't quite right for them. You know, they're they're humming along smoothly. And then pharma pharma can tend to be a big and slow beast. You know?
Mary Hames:So so we have a lot of folks who have said, contact me at this point. You know? Or I need to get through this first. I really like this idea. You know?
Mary Hames:Call me at this point, or I'll call you at this point. And then we've we're doing very well in our in our niche, you know, our our rare, our neuro, our radio farm. And the the double edged sword there is it's you kinda wanna lean into this is what we're really good at and have the expertise in, but you also don't wanna pigeonhole that
Heath Fletcher:Right.
Mary Hames:That's all we can do. You know? So that's so that's kind of a struggle of of do we just do we just embrace it and say, this is what we do, or do we say this is what we do, and we're gonna kinda creep out into into these these nearby peripheral therapeutic areas.
Heath Fletcher:Right.
Mary Hames:So I'll I'll touch base with you in a year and let you know how that's how that's going.
Heath Fletcher:Do you find that there's a there's a certain point in the in the process, you know, from ideation to market where you feel it's your sweet spot, like, where ideally, if you could choose your entry point in in the in the in the transition, where would you like to put?
Mary Hames:Yeah. I think I I like to be in between phase two and phase three. I think that's my favorite part.
Heath Fletcher:Yeah.
Mary Hames:Mhmm. You know, it's it's we know that we know that the drug is is relatively can't say until it's approved, but it's relatively safe.
Heath Fletcher:Right.
Mary Hames:And there is efficacy.
Heath Fletcher:Right.
Mary Hames:But then it's, okay. How how good how good does it work? Can we can we confirm that this that these results are real? And can and what's it gonna take? How many patients is it gonna take?
Mary Hames:And what what study design is is gonna work for this that we can show efficacy and we can do it in a reasonable amount of time. You know? So there's some studies where, you know, endpoints can be really difficult, and the patient the patient demographic changes quickly. And so this it's hard to capture, you know, a a fraction of time where you can show a meaningful impact and the patient isn't isn't changing because of their disease state. Right.
Mary Hames:So there's there's all these really tricky factors that go into play. And then once you have phase three data, it's typically, you know, okay. Full speed
Heath Fletcher:commercial trains on the track. Yeah.
Mary Hames:Fast as we can. Yeah. So I think right now, that's my that's my favorite spot, phase two to three.
Heath Fletcher:And when, you mentioned earlier too when you get them to a certain point where it's like, okay, yeah, actually, now we can actually start employing and filling some of these positions full time. You also help with that process too?
Mary Hames:We do. Wow. We do.
Heath Fletcher:Wow. That's kinda cool. So you actually you actually replace yourself. You find someone to replace you with, and then you exit and stage left, and now you go, and the the train keeps moving.
Mary Hames:And We do. And we even bring on people and ask them. We're very upfront when we when we bring on new consultants, and and employees. You know, do you do you wanna do this just just until you find a full time job or a permanent job? Are you, you know, are you just here temporarily?
Mary Hames:Just you just need a break, or do you wanna stay here forever? Because some people we've we've hired some people part time, and they're just working on, you know, one project for one company, say, twenty hours a week, and they just they love that therapeutic area. They have a lot of background, and they wanna do that, but maybe they don't wanna work full time. And so we have some of those folks that have joined us part time with the option to to join us full time. And and we've had several people who have said, well, know, I wanna work with you guys.
Mary Hames:I wanna work with multiple different companies. And if I find the right company, I'll join them. You know? And so so we write into the contract. If you wanna take one of our people, here's how it's gonna work.
Mary Hames:But we wanna give them the option. You know? If it's if it's if it's a a mutual attraction and we have a we have a consultant that we've that we've put on a project and they love it and the company loves them, great. You know? Enjoy your life together.
Mary Hames:You know?
Heath Fletcher:It's like a pharma dating service almost.
Mary Hames:Sometimes you find a project that you're just really passionate about.
Heath Fletcher:For sure.
Mary Hames:Wanna keep on. So, you know, that's great.
Heath Fletcher:That's great that that door is open because that just sort of alleviates any kind of like, oh, I think I wanna leave, but I don't wanna I don't wanna leave on bad terms. I get saying that's really cool. That's a great approach, I think.
Mary Hames:Yeah. So and and I like I like giving people the freedom to have that transparency.
Heath Fletcher:Mhmm.
Mary Hames:You know? Yeah. Yeah. I'm not gonna probably not gonna stay with you guys forever. I'm I'm shopping, or I'm trying to develop this skill set so that I can get into this next role.
Heath Fletcher:Right.
Mary Hames:Cool. You know? Yeah. Sure. Put on that together and get you there.
Heath Fletcher:Those are win win wins. That's nice.
Mary Hames:Yeah.
Heath Fletcher:Yeah. Okay. Let's think about let's think about the future. What is ahead for you and the company and your team if you were if you could sorta, like, you know, wave a wand and say, oh, in five years, I would like to see us here. Where is that?
Heath Fletcher:What does that look like?
Mary Hames:Yeah. I I would like to see us in five years being the go to medical affairs consulting firm for precommercial products. So for pharma and biotech to think, well, if I've got a product that I need to bring to commercial stage, it's biologic. They're the ones that are gonna get us there. You know, I'd I'd love for us to be that premier medical affairs consultancy.
Mary Hames:It'll be interesting to see how much post commercial work we we continue to do as as the world becomes more even more dynamic than it already is. Mhmm. I think that this model works out for a lot companies beyond that precommercial space. So, you know, I'd love to also be that for companies that need it. You know, that that, hey.
Mary Hames:We wanna try something new. We're gonna bring you in and experiment. And if it if it works, if it doesn't work, we will have learned something. But there's there's a there's a lot of utility for this, you know, beyond that precommercial. But, yeah, I would say in five years, biologic is the the go to firm for for companies trying to bring a new a new drug to market.
Mary Hames:I'd like to see us in a number of different therapeutic areas and have additional additional support features that we don't have yet or are not strong in yet. So I'd like to be able to do more for the the precommercial companies. Mhmm. So
Heath Fletcher:And that so to achieve that growth, what kind of approach would you take, do you think? What would be are are you are you I mean, you're not geographically handcuffed. Like, you guys you can work with anybody anywhere, basically. Right? So how how would you you know, is it a how do you how do you which road do you take for that growth?
Mary Hames:Yeah. It's a good question. There's I think there's a few ways we can we can get there. And, again, it's about balance. You know, you you wanna grow fast enough that you're continuing to succeed and make progress.
Mary Hames:You can't you can't take on everything at once because you won't be good at it. You'll make too many missteps. So figuring out what is the best rate of growth is hard. And I don't know that you can even choose your own rate of growth
Heath Fletcher:Right.
Mary Hames:A whole lot.
Heath Fletcher:Right.
Mary Hames:You know? I I suppose you can turn down clients. You know, who wants to do that? Right. So
Heath Fletcher:That's a tough thing. That's as hard that's as hard as firing people sometimes. You know?
Mary Hames:But, you know, gosh, how do we get there? There's there's a couple different ways. So there's there's organic growth continuing with what we're doing. There's also investment. So, you know, we've been approached by a couple of investment firms who who have other relationships and other companies, and we've we've considered that.
Mary Hames:You know, the the biggest the best pitch I've had yet from from an investment firm was we can get you to a to a larger place, you know, bigger bigger revenues, bigger size, a whole lot faster than you could get along.
Heath Fletcher:Right.
Mary Hames:And so that's interesting to think. You know, we have this somewhat somewhat positive progression over time. And instead of instead of just taking this progression, we could jump, you know, to that to that level.
Heath Fletcher:That's Quantum leap.
Mary Hames:Yeah. That's attractive and scary and exciting. Yeah. So so there's that. And then there's also mergers and acquisitions.
Mary Hames:So, you know, I've I've lived that a few times where you're in a company and there's significant m and a activity, and and that in itself is is challenging.
Heath Fletcher:Mhmm.
Mary Hames:But it is also a great strategy for growth. So so that's a possibility. You know, could we merge? Could we acquire another company that has some of these you know, I mentioned these peripheral skills that I would like us to develop. You know, one way to to get those peripheral skills instead of slowly developing them over time is potentially acquiring the company that already has all those skills.
Heath Fletcher:Right.
Mary Hames:And then, you know
Heath Fletcher:Yeah. That's viable.
Mary Hames:Yeah. So so we're we're exploring some of those things and trying to make those decisions. And in the interim, we're we're continuing to plug along and and think about it. With with investment firms, I feel like they they are ready to go. You know, they they let's make a deal.
Mary Hames:Let's get going. Yeah. And I'm very much like, let's date. You know, let's let's talk about it for a while. I don't know.
Heath Fletcher:Where's the wine?
Mary Hames:Yeah. So and and right now, I I continue to feel really good about that approach because it's it's a big decision.
Heath Fletcher:Yeah.
Mary Hames:It's a lot of change, and you wanna get that right. It's, there was a there was a guy at Kennesaw State, one of my professors once, and he said, you know, when you're doing when you're doing business with people, you're when you're merging two businesses together, it's not like a marriage where you can just get divorced. You know? It's it's a much bigger commitment. So so I do think a a significant measure of of pause and caution is warranted in in those decisions.
Heath Fletcher:So I agree.
Mary Hames:Not in any hurry, but but interested, I think, is is is where we are right now.
Heath Fletcher:Open. It's
Mary Hames:fun fun to think about. Yeah. But in the intro, we're still gonna continue to grow.
Heath Fletcher:For sure.
Mary Hames:Who knows?
Heath Fletcher:It's the world is your entrepreneurial oyster right now, I think. Because you are you are helping to manage flux and change. So and that's definitely a place where most of the world is at right now. So if you're able to help people through tremendous change and and bridge some of those gaps where they get them from where they from where they are now to where they wanna be, I mean, that's a pretty incredible place to be and a pretty cool offer for someone in in need of those services. So yeah.
Heath Fletcher:Yeah. Any last thoughts you wanna throw out there? Anything we didn't cover you'd like to capture before we before we say goodbye? I've really enjoyed this conversation, and I really appreciate you sharing your journey as an entrepreneur and and and where you've come. But, yeah, any last thoughts?
Mary Hames:Or No. I I can't think of anything. I I also hate that I have very much enjoyed the conversation. It's it's fun to talk about. It's fun to reflect on the journey.
Mary Hames:It's it's been good. I appreciate you taking the time.
Heath Fletcher:Yeah. I think it's a good point to it is important to reflect and to remember where we came from and and also to remember our struggles so that hey, well, hey, you don't wanna repeat them. But sometimes we it's where we it's where our biggest learnings come from.
Mary Hames:Makes sense.
Heath Fletcher:It's like well, thank you for sharing with us, and and we'll we'll do it again. I can't wait to hear where you're gonna be in the next couple of years. So we'll talk again.
Mary Hames:Look forward to it. Thank you.
Heath Fletcher:Thanks, Mary. That was a awesome conversation. Really enjoyed talking to Mary about how she embraced her entrepreneurial spirit and forged ahead to start her own consultancy firm. Even after having a, you know, a a fail in the process, it's just something you gotta pick yourself up, dust yourself off, and get back in the game. Her approach is very strategic, very methodical, but also she likes to follow her heart, and she has obviously embraced that value of looking after her team.
Heath Fletcher:You know, and she also keeps that same insight into looking after her clients and helping them achieve their goals where they can be scientists and and and not have to be distracted with the with the grind of running a business, which can kind of get in the way, but also help guide people to stay focused and and learn how to trust others in in helping them reach the finish line. And, I wanna thank you again for listening to the healthy enterprise, and, we'll, talk again soon. Have a great day.
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