Heath Fletcher (00:13)
Hello again, welcome to the Healthy Enterprise podcast. If you're back for more, thank you for joining me again. And if it's your first time around, well, I hope you enjoy this episode. My guest is Elissa Zylbershlag She'll be impressed that I said her name properly and she is the founder of Work Wise Labs. Elissa specializes in proactive HR strategies, one-on-one coaching with managers and engaging workshops that make leadership and team building both fun and effective.
Whether it's preventing small issues from becoming big ones or fixing what's already broken, Elissa equips organizations with the tools to foster a more positive, productive and happy work environment. What a great concept. Please welcome Elissa Zylbershlag
So hello, Elissa How are you today?
Elissa Zylbershlag (01:04)
I'm great. How are you?
Heath Fletcher (01:07)
I'm really
good. Thanks for joining me on this episode. I'm looking forward to hearing more about Work Wise Labs and about your professional career as a coach. So why don't you start there and just introduce yourself to listeners and tell us about yourself and your business.
Elissa Zylbershlag (01:23)
Sure, you don't want to say my last name?
I'll do it. ⁓
So, yeah, so thanks. So my name is Elissa Zylbershlag and I am the owner of Work Wise Labs. And it's a company that I started about two years ago, actually a little over two years ago. And it happened very organically. I was an anti-bias educator for more than 20 years. And I worked in the nonprofit world.
mostly and then a little touch of government at the end, state government. And over those years, I was very much focused on the anti-bias education part, but slowly everything started coming together that it was very connected with having a positive work environment. it was...
Heath Fletcher (02:27)
Before you go any further, can you explain an anti-biased education?
Elissa Zylbershlag (02:34)
what anti-bias education is.
Heath Fletcher (02:37)
Yeah, explain what that is, because I don't even know if I know and completely, and there's probably listeners that don't know. And I'd like to maybe make sure we explain what that is before we go.
Elissa Zylbershlag (02:45)
Sure, of course. So, anti-bias education means that you're working to have a more just, fair, and equitable world. I worked ⁓ with... It started with schools, mostly. I was working with students and teachers, and we would go in and we would talk about discrimination and bias and hate.
and what that looks like. schools are like a hotbed of that. ⁓
Heath Fletcher (03:21)
Yeah. Anything and everything.
Elissa Zylbershlag (03:24)
I will say that as my career progressed, I also realized that the workplace is a hotbed of that. And then I realized, wait a minute, families are a hotbed of that and friend groups are a hotbed of that. like basically, everyone knows it. There's bias and hate and discrimination and it's...
Heath Fletcher (03:43)
You know it. It's obvious.
Elissa Zylbershlag (03:49)
And it's pretty intense and having those conversations is like a really intense thing. And it's really personal to people. It's people's life experiences.
Heath Fletcher (04:02)
It forms us, you know, it becomes a foundation for how we see the how other people see the world too, right?
Elissa Zylbershlag (04:11)
Yeah. And, and, you know, stereotypes exist. They're, they're culture by culture. Right. So the stereotypes that you have in Canada are different than the stereotypes that I have here. You know, I've grown up with in New Jersey and I always tell a story and, in, used to always tell the story and trainings around stereotypes that
When after college I went and I lived on a kippot in Israel, is like a socialist group. Israel was made up originally back when it started of different kippots. It's like a socialist living environment. you share. Communal living. Yeah, it's communal living. There's a food, like a cafeteria, everyone eats there. There was a children's house for many years. The children didn't even live with their parents for many years.
Anyway, they changed that because that turned out to not be good for the kids. That did not work out. It was an experiment, right? Sure. And there's not a lot of kibbutzim left. But I went and I lived on a kibbutz. And when I was on the kibbutz, it was in the late 90s. And there were a lot of Russian immigrants at the time. And so I lived in a house with all of these Russian immigrants. And what do I like? I don't have any.
Heath Fletcher (05:15)
That didn't work out.
Elissa Zylbershlag (05:40)
ideas about Russian people. mean, it's not something that existed in my culture and my worldview at the time. And the stereotypes that Israelis had about Russians were very distinct and very loud. And I was like, very surprised about it. But just to drive the point home that all of these stereotypes about Russians, for example, in Israel,
existed that did not exist here in America. so, you know, we all, everybody has all these ideas and all of there's all of this stuff. So that's anti-bias education. Just talking about that, understanding that. ⁓ And bringing people to an understanding of life views and that it's okay that it's like different, you know.
Heath Fletcher (06:26)
That's great. Thank you for explaining that.
Elissa Zylbershlag (06:37)
Different does not mean bad. right. And eventually I started working for ⁓ the Division on Civil Rights in New Jersey where I developed ⁓ programming for the public education and training for the public around, ⁓ you know, like against the law to better understand the laws of New Jersey, the anti-discrimination laws of New Jersey.
And it just kind of burnt me out. You know, it was like dark. There's a lot of really dark, heavy conversations. I started to realize that the goal of all of this was to create places that were positive and in harmony. And I'm a very positive person by nature. And so I came across this whole idea of positive psychology. I don't know if you've ever heard of it.
Have you heard of positive psychology?
Heath Fletcher (07:36)
of it. I'm not, you'll have to go in a bit deeper, but I, yeah, I have heard of it. Yes.
Elissa Zylbershlag (07:42)
Well, it like really intrigued me. So psychology is about diagnosing problems and fixing those problems, right? Like, so it's like bringing people back up to zero. And positive psychology is like, well, instead of looking at what's wrong with people, let's look at
Heath Fletcher (07:58)
okay.
Elissa Zylbershlag (08:10)
what's right with people and that brings people health and wellness and gets them to flourish. And so it's like everything above zero. And I was like, yeah, that's amazing. I went, yeah, it's super, it's super interesting.
Heath Fletcher (08:18)
Right, okay.
Yeah.
Kind
of makes me think of like in in school, you were always sort of, well, what are you not good at? Let's teach you more of what you're not good at. And they didn't really focus on what we were good at. It's like, well, why don't you give me more of what I'm good at? Because then I'll get even better at it and said, well, you don't you're not good at math. So we're going to make you do math or and I'll never get better at math anyway. So
Elissa Zylbershlag (08:56)
Yeah, that's exactly it. So the of positive psychology is this guy named Dr. Seligman, and he's out of the University of Pennsylvania. And him and this other doctor, Chris Peterson, they got together and they decided to find out what are the common virtues that cultures all throughout history
have valued. And so they got together 55 social scientists and they sent them out into the world and over and they to look for virtues. And they looked, they went like big and they looked at philosophers and cultures and religions and what are the virtues, the common virtues found in all of them. But they also went really small and they looked at like organizational ⁓
organizational mission statements and hallmark reading cards and song lyrics. you know, so they like went big and they went small and yeah, super cool. And they came up with six virtues and they took those six virtues and they created like this chart of character strengths that
Heath Fletcher (10:06)
Mic.
Elissa Zylbershlag (10:24)
align with these six virtues and there's 24 different character strengths that exist in all people to varying degrees. And if you can focus on what they call your signature strengths, like the top five, three to five, then you can live a more meaningful, happy, flourishing life.
Heath Fletcher (10:35)
Right.
Elissa Zylbershlag (10:54)
And it's about focusing on those things. It's exactly what you just said. I actually, Oh, so I mean, I don't know all of them offhand. I probably have like the chart somewhere. I could share it with you. like my, my top strengths are curiosity, humor.
Heath Fletcher (10:58)
Cool, I like that.
dying to know what they are.
Elissa Zylbershlag (11:23)
I'm trying to think what else. do the assessment every couple years. Like you can redo it because it shifts, right? Like depending on what.
Heath Fletcher (11:30)
would
with your environment, your lifestyle and your where you're at.
Elissa Zylbershlag (11:34)
Depending what's going on. Yeah. Yeah. There's ⁓ appreciation of beauty is one ⁓ prudence is one spirituality. That's not me. Those are low on my list. If you must know the truth consistently, I'll say. Yeah. So is it?
Heath Fletcher (11:58)
That's funny.
Elissa Zylbershlag (12:04)
So yeah, and there's a lot of study around it. And one of my favorite things is, oh, I actually have the list right here. Now I look up, sometimes things in your environment, you put up sticky notes and you forget that they're there. Okay, so you wanna know another one of my signature strengths is zest.
Heath Fletcher (12:26)
Zest that's a good word
Elissa Zylbershlag (12:29)
I know I'm zesty. Honesty is one. So yeah, so I would say humor, humor, curiosity, zest. Okay, that's good. Prudence and prudence, self-regulation and spirituality, not so much. ⁓ bravery is probably one of mine too. But actually I'll attach it to Work Wise Labs.
Bravery is probably one of my signature strengths if I took the assessment now since I started Work Wise Labs, because what you know, as you know, when you start a business, it's scary. It's terrifying.
Heath Fletcher (13:10)
Well, it's sickeningly addictively exciting, but also absolutely terrifying.
Elissa Zylbershlag (13:17)
Right and you can't be brave
Heath Fletcher (13:21)
Why
am I doing this? Yes. ⁓
Elissa Zylbershlag (13:24)
Yeah. So you can't have bravery unless you have that fear. I would say, like, that's what I mean, like with the circumstances of your life, those characters strikes change. And, and, and what they say is, ⁓ focusing on the strengths makes you happier and makes your life more meaningful. And so I have a training on that and how to bring that into the workplace.
Yeah, and it's a really fun, I actually did it last week with a great group of, for an all staff training for an organization. And there were about 55 people there and it's, that's a, that's a very popular training. So one of the things that I do with Work Wise Labs is I have team building workshops and that's one of them that I do. And it's super fun. It gets people connected and talking and understanding themselves, but also understanding their colleagues. And it's really fun.
Heath Fletcher (14:21)
Wow, that's great. I know they're always in person or can you do them or you do them remotely too? Did you get into doing them remotely?
Elissa Zylbershlag (14:27)
I mean,
there are certain ones I do remotely. I definitely have virtual versions of some of mine. I have a self-awareness training that's very popular. I did that self-awareness training today actually with a board of a nonprofit. And that one I could do virtually, but the character strengths one I can't. That's like really in person.
Heath Fletcher (14:52)
Well, some of these things you just have to be, it's got to be in person. You just can't get the same experience watching a screen and your dog and your kids are distracting you and you're to be immersed in it is probably the best part. Yeah.
Elissa Zylbershlag (15:04)
Whatever.
Yeah, but I do have as an educator, am trained. have my master's in multicultural education and I am an educator. And as an educator, I do have some tricks to keep virtual trainings interesting. do. I have a lot of tricks.
Heath Fletcher (15:29)
Okay, so let's go back a second because I have a question. you because you were in ⁓ you're in that serious, ⁓ that serious long term work environment. And you and you said you made this decision to, to, to vacate and leave that behind. What was it that is what what what inspired you to start your own business? Or was that the plan?
Elissa Zylbershlag (15:56)
Did you know that was not before?
Heath Fletcher (15:58)
or was it sort of out of necessity kind of a thing?
Elissa Zylbershlag (16:01)
It wasn't out of necessity. was a choice, thankfully, that I made. ⁓ And so two jobs ago, two full-time jobs ago that I didn't work for myself, ⁓ I got ⁓ certified in positive psychology. So I went to the University of Pennsylvania and I got a certification in positive psychology because it just really spoke to me. And it just felt so good. I was in the midst of
all of the anti-bias work that I was doing and ⁓ it really spoke to me. So I did that and then ⁓ I said to my boss there, she was great. I said, I think our workplace could use a little like positivity. And she was like, all right. And she said, and I said, can I play here? And she said, yeah. So I created a series of trainings that I did in that workplace and they went really, really well.
and then COVID hit.
Heath Fletcher (17:02)
⁓ yeah, nice. old COVID. Good old COVID.
Elissa Zylbershlag (17:05)
Good old COVID. old COVID.
that got paused there. But in the midst of COVID, I ended up getting a new job. And I was building an education and training unit for the Division on Civil Rights. And while I was there, I said to that great boss, she was fantastic. I said, can I play here? She was like, sure.
I did that and then she left and then I got another boss that I said to him, can I continue playing here? And he was like, yeah, sure. So I was doing my job, but then I was, I was like experimenting and piloting things and writing new trainings. Yeah.
Heath Fletcher (17:48)
great opportunity to
work, right? That's so great. And was originally you took this course because you thought you might be old in, know, involved in your in professional role. But and then you ended up doing it anyways at three different places.
Elissa Zylbershlag (18:03)
Yeah. Well, two different places. then I, and then I, two different places, three different bosses. And then, yeah. And then what, and so then like people started hearing about it and, I come from an entrepreneurial family. So my father owns his own business. It is my sister owns her own business. My brother owns his own business. My mother, when we were little had her own business. And so
everyone in my family, and so my brother actually said to me is like, well, actually it was my dad. was, we were at my son's sleep away camp for parents weekend and we're all sitting around and I was saying like, this place wants to hire me to do something. Cause word of mouth, like, you know, you start doing and somebody says, will you do this over here? And I said,
Heath Fletcher (18:51)
great thing on the week on last week and I would be really awesome if we could do this. Yeah, word just starts to spread. Yeah.
Elissa Zylbershlag (18:57)
word just kind of started to spread. And, and my dad said, you really need an LLC. And I was like, Oh, okay. Great. Like, I know I was like, Oh, I what everything dad
Heath Fletcher (19:10)
Is that a treatment?
Elissa Zylbershlag (19:15)
I hate them.
Heath Fletcher (19:15)
Is that an ointment or is he rubber applied or do you ingest it? what?
Elissa Zylbershlag (19:23)
That's exactly how I felt. And actually, that's how I feel in business sometimes. I'm like, what is that? don't, people say acronyms all the time and I'm like, I don't know what that means. You know, like when you're a new business owner, it's like, you're just figuring it out.
Heath Fletcher (19:44)
Yeah, yeah. And everyone else has got the jargon and ⁓ man. ⁓
Elissa Zylbershlag (19:49)
And I'm like
Googling. like, you know, you're also a new business owner and you're like, yes, no problem. Thank God for Google. I don't know what people used to do without Google. Anyway, so I created this LLC. I created Workwise Labs and I started, you know, for that first, it was a university wanted me to do something. So it was that first university and I did it.
Heath Fletcher (19:55)
Of course I
Elissa Zylbershlag (20:16)
And then my brother said to me, he's like, you need to start talking to people and telling them. was like, I should, what? At first I was like, what would I say? he was like, I know. He was like, well, you're doing it anyway. Just tell people you're doing it. Just tell them. You don't have to sell it. Just tell them. And I did. then
Heath Fletcher (20:40)
It will sell itself.
Elissa Zylbershlag (20:41)
I mean, yeah, mean, within, I would say probably six months, I got a pretty big contract at a university and it allowed me to leave my job.
Heath Fletcher (20:53)
Wow. That's great. Congratulations. That's really great. and now you're working and who do you work with most? Like are you, do you do a lot of mostly group interactions like with, with companies or are you doing one-on-one with people as well or?
Elissa Zylbershlag (20:56)
Thanks.
So I do three, I have like three big things that I do. The first thing is I have a leadership development program that I started. It's a six month course and it is for new or new-ish leaders. And it's just really to build their confidence, their leadership confidence. And it's going great.
and I'm really happy with it. So I have that. That's one piece. The second piece are the team building workshops. I work with nonprofits and mission-driven organizations. And so that's been going great. So I have team building workshops, all different kinds, like the character strengths, self-awareness, all different values, all different topics. And then I do coaching, one-on-one coaching.
Heath Fletcher (22:09)
Very cool.
Elissa Zylbershlag (22:10)
And I all
different kinds of clients, not just nonprofit, actually. have all different kinds of clients.
Heath Fletcher (22:17)
all different levels of the hierarchy of a business.
Elissa Zylbershlag (22:21)
Mostly
leaders, mostly leaders and business owners. Yeah. ⁓
Heath Fletcher (22:26)
What What are you finding like in as far as leaders go? Like what are what are there? What are the issues right now? Like what are the main things that they're mostly coming to you to talk about? Names or what's what?
Elissa Zylbershlag (22:38)
What's What's
next?
Heath Fletcher (22:43)
Like what's next in the world or what's next in life?
Elissa Zylbershlag (22:46)
Well, isn't their life their world? Yeah, what? Drew what's next is is Every single client that I have writing every single one and what's next is different for different people, right? Yeah, so I have people who want to retire Yeah, I have people and like figuring out that like
Heath Fletcher (22:52)
That's true.
Yeah. Who they are,
How
am I going to do that?
Elissa Zylbershlag (23:17)
succession planning, selling their business. like, you know, people get focused on that, then they forget the, well, what am I going to do in retirement? Right? Because who am I without that? I without my work identity? Yeah. And that is actually something. Yeah, that's actually something that is a very and I don't know if it's Canadian, but it's a very American thing. Your identity.
Heath Fletcher (23:29)
Yeah. Who am I going to be?
Deal.
Elissa Zylbershlag (23:47)
is your job.
Heath Fletcher (23:49)
I think it's a world thing. No? North America. Definitely North America. Definitely North America.
Elissa Zylbershlag (23:50)
It's not a world thing. Nope, it is not.
Okay. So I didn't know if it was a Canada thing, but like, yeah, for sure. in Israel, that's not what that's not.
Heath Fletcher (24:04)
This thing you do when you meet somebody is like, what do do?
Elissa Zylbershlag (24:06)
right here. Right? Not there. Not there. Not No, I have a friend who's Indian. Not in India. That is not the first thing that people talk about. Only here is. Yeah, I mean, even in Europe, even in Europe, look at Europe, like the whole Europe takes off August, like, they have like 40. They have like 40 vacation days a year, like they do not.
Heath Fletcher (24:08)
here.
We were driven by that,
Great.
Elissa Zylbershlag (24:36)
The value of work and career is very different.
Heath Fletcher (24:42)
Hmm. I wonder if UK would be the same.
Elissa Zylbershlag (24:45)
I don't know.
Heath Fletcher (24:48)
That's very interesting. You don't think about that. But yeah, you're right. It's definitely certainly a Western Western society kind of approach. What do you do? And what we do and where you maybe that's there's something about this next generation. It's just like they're, you know, like I have kids who are 20 in their 20s, right? And then they're like, making a choice or decision about where they want to be and what they want to do. I mean, it's a big it's a
Elissa Zylbershlag (24:57)
to
Heath Fletcher (25:15)
decision and they're having these existential life crisis, you know, in in their early twenties, not in their forties and fifties like we're doing.
Elissa Zylbershlag (25:26)
I've had some clients. I've had some clients who were around. I just had conversation with a ⁓ woman. ⁓
who's 26 and she's like, she has, she's highly educated and she doesn't want to do that. And she spent hundreds of thousands of dollars on her education. She doesn't want to do it. So that's her what's next. You know, I mean, everybody wants to know what's next.
Heath Fletcher (25:56)
Yeah.
I think it's a place in our in our evolution right now because there are so many uncertainties and unknowns that it's hard to really, you know, try and envision what's next, you know, where do I go? do I know about the logistics of how I how do I get from here to there?
Elissa Zylbershlag (26:18)
do.
I don't know. mean, that's what coaching is really about. Coaching is not therapy. It's about coaching. That's right.
Heath Fletcher (26:35)
Talking about that? It's
not therapy, but it probably is a thin line.
Elissa Zylbershlag (26:41)
Well, think therapists might use coaching tactics, but coaching is about asking questions, not telling people what to do, not diagnosing. And so it's about possibility, what's possible, and it's about action plan. So that's why answering that what's next question is a really great question for coaching. And that's really the question that
every single client I have.
Heath Fletcher (27:15)
Interesting. Wow. So then when you, how long does a one-on-one coaching session, you know, relationship go? Can it be six months to six decades or how long can it go? Is it just a-
Elissa Zylbershlag (27:17)
Yeah.
The answer is yes. It's individual. Everybody's different, right? Everybody's different. I have a coach. I'm not stopping anytime soon because there's always things that come up in my mind.
I don't know how to deal with this or that thought that keeps you up at night that you're just ruminating on and you just need to figure it out. And that's what coaching gives you is that space to figure it out with someone who's trained to ask you the questions that will get you.
Heath Fletcher (28:06)
to trigger you to think through some of the things that you're working on. ⁓
Elissa Zylbershlag (28:11)
Correct.
And the coach can't know what the answers are. No. Only you can. Yeah.
Heath Fletcher (28:19)
But you have facilitate that conversation to help direct the way they think or the way they look at things that might give them their own answers.
Elissa Zylbershlag (28:29)
And find patterns. That's something also that I realize I do a lot in coaching is like find people's patterns.
Heath Fletcher (28:37)
Mm, right.
Yeah, I was reading there was a few things that you kind of focus on. is managing issues, know, or working with people who, managers that have issues with coworkers, for example. That's a common one that I read on your website. So is helping to explore, you know, and utilize skills and talents, which we kind of talked about is focusing on the things that you're actually good at and that you like to do. And then the other one is prioritizing ⁓ needs, your own needs first. the...
you know, the oxygen mask on the airplane theory, right? Where you help yourself first before you can help somebody else. So those are, those are kind of, you've highlighted those three things. Those seem to be kind of the larger sort of issues at hand that you tend to deal with most often.
Elissa Zylbershlag (29:16)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah, I mean, I probably should update my website.
Heath Fletcher (29:35)
there's new ones.
Elissa Zylbershlag (29:37)
I mean, now you're making me think, right? Like the what's next, the what's next. That was a great coaching question. What do people ask? What do people want to know the most? Nobody's asked me that. And that's a really important, that's a really important data point for me to focus on is that people want to know what's next.
Heath Fletcher (29:50)
Yeah, what do they want to know?
Elissa Zylbershlag (30:06)
And that's, I'm going to put that on my website.
Heath Fletcher (30:10)
Yeah, you're very welcome.
I'm a marketing coach.
Elissa Zylbershlag (30:16)
Look
at that. Look at that. ⁓ no.
See, things just happen sometimes. That's the nature of business, right? Things just happen.
Heath Fletcher (30:32)
Yeah. Like one of those questions. So that one about prioritizing your own needs first. Let's talk about that one, for example, because a lot of us can probably relate to that one. And how do you, how do you do that as a, you know, as a professional where, know, you got to look after yourself before you can help anyone else on the plane, but
Elissa Zylbershlag (30:34)
Yeah
It's really interesting that that's, it's interesting that that's there and it's making me think of ⁓ something I did yesterday. I did a program in my, in my leadership development course on leadership confidence. And you do have to take care of yourself, right? You have to understand, you have to have confidence when you're a leader.
Heath Fletcher (30:58)
scenario.
Elissa Zylbershlag (31:20)
You have to take care of that part of yourself. You have to nurture yourself. You have to learn. You have to grow. All of that is true. And one of the things that I think is really important also is when you're a leader, it's actually not about you.
Heath Fletcher (31:40)
Right.
Elissa Zylbershlag (31:41)
it's about your team. it's kind of both, it's like maybe a both and, right? It's like, you do have to take care of yourself and you do have to set boundaries and right, have technical mastery. I'm like thinking of the things, the things that we talked about yesterday. You have to have technical mastery and if you don't, you have to know who does, right? You have to take care of yourself. You have to learn. You have to have...
competencies and you know, what those are ⁓ and check off the boxes. We give the new leaders a checklist to work on their confidence and like over the six months we work on it. So, you you have to do that and you have to invest in yourself and you have to recognize that it's just not always about you. And if you're gonna lead and
and have a vision and drive the boat and stay the course.
Bye.
Heath Fletcher (32:50)
We're always wondering that, you know, like, mean, everyone's been in that position before. like, Hmm, am I making sense to them? Or, ⁓ am I being a good leader right now? Or am I speaking with a leadership tone or, know, like you're always questioning, you know, what, how, how am I coming across? Am I coming across as a leader? So we do kind of get a little bit self-focused and not really, you know, how am I, how am I being received as opposed to focusing on what you're delivering?
and
Elissa Zylbershlag (33:20)
Well,
how you're being received is an important component of leadership. Yes, of course. Now that's a very important component of self-awareness. And people think, you know, self-awareness is just about, you know, knowing yourself and your values and your passions and your aspirations and your goals and all of those things. And that is part of self-awareness. But probably a bigger part of self-awareness is seeing how other people see you. And so in my...
and understanding that and you get you, you, you see your impact on other people through feedback, through social cues and, really, ⁓ taking the time to understand that. And I liken that. have an analogy that I use in my trainings. ⁓ I call it the mirror and the portrait and the mirror is, you know, you look in that mirror and you see, you see yourself and sometimes well,
Heath Fletcher (34:16)
What get?
Elissa Zylbershlag (34:18)
Yes. And sometimes you're looking in a fun house mirror, right? Sometimes your self-perception is a little off.
Heath Fletcher (34:23)
Yes, right.
Right, you see what you want to see or don't want to
Elissa Zylbershlag (34:30)
you
want. You see what you want to see or you see what you don't want to see. And so it is important to get to see yourself clearly. so that's part of self-awareness. And then we have the portrait and you know, every person you meet has painted a portrait of you. Right. you made... Isn't that good? Yeah. I know. It's a very, it's like...
Heath Fletcher (34:50)
That's good.
Elissa Zylbershlag (34:58)
gets, it helps people. mean, I had, I did this training today and the room was very into the portrait. I mean, we talked about the portrait a lot and you know, this, you don't, when someone paints that portrait of you, they're painting it based on their own life experience, their biases, their stereotypes, their perceptions and that's life experiences. And that is
Heath Fletcher (35:18)
Wait.
experiences.
Elissa Zylbershlag (35:28)
data for you. That's data. You can do with that data what you want. You can believe it. You can take it with a grain of salt. You can disregard it. But that portrait exists of you. So how do
Heath Fletcher (35:45)
How do we learn about these portraits? People have perceptions of us, but how do we ever get that information? Because you don't always get honest feedback.
Elissa Zylbershlag (35:59)
Well, you do though. You have to pay attention. have to pay attention.
Heath Fletcher (36:03)
point. have to pay attention to
Elissa Zylbershlag (36:05)
You
to pay attention and I'll tell you a story that just happened about an hour. Well, now it was two hours ago because I was driving home from this and I was on the phone with my brother and he has to go to court today. He's calling it stupid court because it's at night because he did like. It's night court and he he does asbestos removal, he owns a business and he does asbestos removal and he dropped he put a.
Heath Fletcher (36:23)
night court.
Elissa Zylbershlag (36:34)
He was changing out the big, ⁓ what's it called? The big dumpsters. He was changing out the dumpsters in this client's driveway. He didn't have room. put the dumpster on the street, the dirty, the full one on the street for a minute and put the empty one in and then took the, and he got in trouble. So he had to go to court tonight. And my brother can be a little bit of a hothead. So I said to him, listen,
I want to give you some unsolicited advice." And he said, what? I said, whatever they say to you, and because he's pissed, okay? It was a whole story and he's pissed. I said, whatever they say to you in court, you do not have to answer right away. Take a minute, construct your thoughts and then respond. And he's like, you know what?
His girlfriend, his girlfriend said, he's like, my girlfriend also said to me the same thing. Am I, you all think of me as such a hothead? And I was like, ⁓ yeah. And I shared with him a quote from Tasha Yurik, who is one of the lead researchers on, on self-awareness. And she says, feedback from one person is an opinion. Feedback from two people is a pattern.
And feedback from three or more people is as close to a fact as you're going to get.
Heath Fletcher (38:10)
Ooh, wow. ⁓
Elissa Zylbershlag (38:12)
So if you're
hearing the same feedback over and over.
That's a portrait right there.
Heath Fletcher (38:22)
1-2-3
theory.
Elissa Zylbershlag (38:25)
The one, two, three theory.
Heath Fletcher (38:27)
Yeah, I just had to put an A into it.
Elissa Zylbershlag (38:30)
okay. Well, actually, I said that in a I once said that the reason I'm questioning you saying that is because I once said this in a training, I did a training on this and, and I read that quote, and someone said some there's a there's something like that, in sales or in marketing, or, or manufacturing or something. So so they said something like that. So I was thinking maybe you were
Heath Fletcher (38:54)
No, no, I just came up with a way to remember that the 123 theory would be like, yeah, you hear it once it's say it again. Once it
Elissa Zylbershlag (39:03)
So what? Okay.
Feedback from one person is an opinion. Twice is a pattern. Three is
Heath Fletcher (39:11)
Yeah. Interesting. That's a good one. That's really good takeaway there.
Elissa Zylbershlag (39:14)
It is good, right?
Yeah, so that's how you see the portrait.
Heath Fletcher (39:20)
Yeah, right. Yeah, the feedback is there. I guess it's if we want to see it or hear it.
Elissa Zylbershlag (39:26)
It's
one way. It's one way to see the culture.
Heath Fletcher (39:30)
Yeah. But you're like, you said like there's, there's, ⁓ visual clues as well. You know, like if, you know, I've been told I talk too much, but, ⁓ that maybe in social situations, I got to learn when to stop talking and maybe just read the room a little bit. So I was told that a few times, so it was probably a fact.
Elissa Zylbershlag (39:53)
⁓ there you go. Well, social news, social.
Heath Fletcher (39:58)
And so then, know, as soon as you start, as soon as that's brought, but that's just as as you're brought to your attention. It's like, yeah, people are starting to like look around the room and like, you know, like I'm obviously I'm telling too long of a story and ⁓ I'm starting to see that people are zoning out and it's like, it's true. And so I was very conscious then afterwards, not subconscious, but I was aware of the fact that
Yeah, maybe the twist, maybe you could have cut the story back, you know, by about four minutes and maybe let let let the rest of it go by imagination. But it was it's a it's a great example of that. Soon as it becomes an awareness.
Elissa Zylbershlag (40:43)
Yeah, yeah. there's ⁓ Thomas Cooley said, and this is a great quote, now follow me here. I am not who you think I am. I am not who I think I am. I am who I think you think I am. ⁓
Heath Fletcher (41:05)
Sheesh.
Elissa Zylbershlag (41:07)
I know, isn't that good? That's called the looking glass self theory.
Yeah, I'm not who you think I am. I'm not who I think I am. I am who I think you think I am. Yeah, that's a lot to think about anyway
Heath Fletcher (41:25)
So you're two years into your business now and you are and you've cut the you've cut the umbilical cord. are full on on your own good and you're loving it and you're busy and that's so great and where are you ⁓ what's next like what's next for you in your business?
Elissa Zylbershlag (41:46)
Well, I am in the next right now. I still feel like I am, this is so new and exciting. I you said it before. Yeah, it's so new. It's so exciting. New things happening every day. I have dreams. I have vision. And I think the difference between, you know,
Heath Fletcher (42:01)
Yeah, yeah.
Elissa Zylbershlag (42:15)
failure and success. Everyone has dreams, everyone has vision, but it's the actual doing. And so I am actually doing. And that's really exciting. And so, yeah, so I'm doing it. That's what I'm doing. That is what's next. I am doing.
Heath Fletcher (42:34)
you were doing. That's the next part. And vision wise, like you were saying, you have visions, you have dreams. Do you see more of what you're doing now in the near future? Or do you see something bigger?
Elissa Zylbershlag (42:46)
I'm growing. I'm big. I'm going big, I'm going
Heath Fletcher (42:50)
What is grow? What does that look like? Give me an idea.
Elissa Zylbershlag (42:52)
know what it looks like and I'll tell you, I'm okay with that. ⁓ I just worked with this guy. He was like, I love this program that you developed. Can I license it? And I was like,
Heath Fletcher (43:07)
What does that mean?
Elissa Zylbershlag (43:08)
You know, yes, you can. And then like Googling, what does it look like to like, like, what do I have to do to license my stuff? Right. So I got an attorney and you know, like, I didn't even know that that was a thing.
Heath Fletcher (43:26)
Oh, is that what he did? He licensed, he licenses intellectual property,
Elissa Zylbershlag (43:28)
He licensed one of my programs.
Yeah. So I had to go through that process. And so now I've learned that. So it's like, I don't even know what's next because every day new things are happening.
Heath Fletcher (43:46)
That's an exciting place. Exciting. Yeah. So there you're, you're primed and positioned for growth at some point when you, when you, when the vision hits you, you'll know what that looks like and where that's going to be. But for now you're growing your business and how do you grow it? What do you do to reach other people? Is it mostly word of mouth or are you actually out, you know, cold calling and, and, and doing the.
Elissa Zylbershlag (43:48)
I know, it's very exciting.
Yeah.
I don't do cold calls. No. Who likes cold callings?
Heath Fletcher (44:17)
How
do you get your word? How do you get the name out there? How do you get this out?
Elissa Zylbershlag (44:20)
So I have found that two things really work for me. Networking, meeting people, having conversations like this, know, just talking. Yeah, just talking to people. That's number one. And the second way I get business is people see what I do. So when somebody sees a program, then they hire me.
Heath Fletcher (44:50)
the experience.
Elissa Zylbershlag (44:51)
Right. To know the value of what I do, you have to experience it. So I have, every month I hold a free 15 minute workshop called Just a Touch. I have, cause it's like just a touch of a training. And so like, and I do different themes. So this morning I did one called Just a Touch of Resolving Conflict. Last month I did
just a touch of self-awareness. Next month I'm doing just a touch of motivation. And so I do these little 15 minute, they're free. Anyone can come. It's on Zoom. Super easy. really? Yeah, come.
Heath Fletcher (45:30)
I'm I'm coming. I am. going to do all of them.
Elissa Zylbershlag (45:35)
Alright, so you come to all of them. So go to WorkWiseLabs.com right on the main page, Public Programming. You can click and register. Come.
Heath Fletcher (45:44)
I'm gonna do that. I am.
Elissa Zylbershlag (45:46)
Yeah,
it's only 15 minutes and I feel like have to like
Heath Fletcher (45:49)
That's, it's easy. That's an easy, that's an easy commit. I can do that. ⁓ you know, there's two words that you had on your website too, that I read and you know, you know, fun and supportive, you know, like people want to work in a fun and supportive environment. And you talk a lot about, ⁓ you know, working with conflict or working through conflict and you find, know, and
Elissa Zylbershlag (45:53)
It's an easy commit.
Heath Fletcher (46:19)
It's funny because I, you know, I consider myself ⁓ more of a positive personality as well. And I always think, well, most places are fun and supportive, aren't they? And I, know, as you start to, you know, get to know people in places and different kinds of work environments and companies and stuff like that. No, there's a lot of conflict and there's there's a lot of people that thrive on conflict. It's almost like it wouldn't be a
Elissa Zylbershlag (46:41)
conflict.
Heath Fletcher (46:48)
proper workplace, if it was fun and supportive, you can't have a workplace without conflict. Right? I think there's a belief around that. And how is that? Is there some truth to that? Or do you think it's an outdated philosophy?
Elissa Zylbershlag (47:07)
No, there is no person, there is no workplace on earth that doesn't have conflict. And I would add, and I would add that not all conflict is bad.
Heath Fletcher (47:20)
Okay.
Elissa Zylbershlag (47:20)
In fact, when, you would come to my Just a Touch of resolving conflict this morning, you would know that...
Heath Fletcher (47:30)
Next month, I'll know.
Elissa Zylbershlag (47:32)
I'm just kidding. didn't even know you this morning. that when conflict is addressed, three quarters of the time, 75 % of the time, it resolves and relationships are better for it.
Heath Fletcher (47:53)
That's a crazy number.
Elissa Zylbershlag (47:54)
When
it is addressed, when it is addressed in the right way, in a healthy way, it gets resolved and relationships grow. Conflict is not a bad thing all the time. It's not. It's only bad when people don't address it, when it goes unaddressed. That's when it's bad. And that's why most conflict goes unaddressed. But when it gets addressed in the right way,
75 % of those conflicts actually improve the relationship.
Heath Fletcher (48:27)
And that's something you can teach.
Elissa Zylbershlag (48:30)
Yeah. yeah. We have a whole conflict strategy called the one-to-one strategy that I developed. Yeah.
Heath Fletcher (48:39)
Very cool, very cool. That'd be fun to take too. I love this stuff. Okay, I'm coming, ⁓
Elissa Zylbershlag (48:42)
Yeah.
Great! you gotta come!
Yes, and I do it in a fun way because to your point of ⁓ fun and supportive workplaces, ⁓ people stay at jobs where they feel supported and they're having a good time. And how do you gamify the workplace? So at my last job, at my last place, I had a team, there was probably seven or eight of us, and we did trainings.
I created a game and the game was guess how many people are actually going to show up. So we had a limit of 90 registrants per training. And so we had a Google sheet and we all had a column and whoever got the most in a quarter, like Q1, Q2, whoever got the most right would get a Friday afternoon off. So everyone played it.
And if you got it, if you got closest to it, to the number, you got a point. And if you got, you hit the number on the head, like if you were right on, you got two points. So everyone was like super into it, you know, and you gamify and it's about work, right? You gave it, it makes it fun.
Heath Fletcher (49:59)
Nice.
Yeah, that is fun. Cool. Cool tricks. Sounds like a great business and sounds like you are really into it and you're very good at it. So I can't wait to take one of your courses or all four of them. And I hope some other people listening will hear this too and ⁓ take you up on that as well and try out one of your 15 minute courses. But ⁓ thank you for this time with me. I really have enjoyed meeting you.
talking with you about what you're obviously super passionate and what you're really good at and focused on those things. And just thank you for sharing yourself with us on this episode. Really appreciate it.
Elissa Zylbershlag (50:51)
Thank you for having me.
Heath Fletcher (50:56)
Well, that was a really great chat. hope you enjoyed that as much as I did. What I love about what Elissa is doing is that it ties together the heart and science of great leadership and how understanding bias, focusing on what's right with people and leading into positive psychology can truly transform a workplace. And that leadership isn't just about guiding others. It's about nurturing yourself, staying self-aware and learning to turn.
conflict into connection and I think that is a powerful reminder for anyone. So if you're curious to learn more about Work Wise Labs or Elissa's leadership development workshops, please check out her website at workwiselabs.com. And thank you for joining me today for the healthy enterprise. And if you enjoyed this episode, be sure to subscribe and share it with friends if you think they could get something out of it as well. Until next time, stay curious, keep growing and keep building workplaces where
people truly thrive. Bye for now.