Data-Driven Rehab: Making Recovery Smarter with Joe Banach
Welcome to this episode. My guest today is Joe Banich. He is the director of sales and marketing with Next Step Robotics. He's a physical therapist that transitioned his career into helping rehabilitation clinics adopt robotics as a form of therapy for their ongoing patient care. Thanks for being on the show, Joe, and I I can't wait to hear what you got going on over at Next Step.
Heath Fletcher:So just give us a little bit of a background on your journey and and how you got to where you're at right now.
Joe Banach:Yeah. It's a little more little more unique in terms of the sales and marketing aspect, like how I arrived here, but it it all started really if I kind of rewind to after high school actually is I I lost a decent amount of weight after high school, and that changed me from lazy and not driven to very driven and wanting to, like, have that same life change and everybody else kind of pass that on to other people. So I have that led to me becoming a personal trainer. And that slowly led me to wanting to make more of a difference, which led me to be a physical therapist, or I believe in Canada is physiotherapist physiotherapist.
Heath Fletcher:That's right.
Joe Banach:Yeah, Okay. Yeah, so physiotherapist and then we were talking before before this aired. COVID changed everything in a lot of ways, but COVID in our industry at my specific hospital I was at, they they were not supporting telehealth. And so I was basically get furloughed or find something else. And I always I always saw physical therapy, especially personal training, but even physical therapy as well as a sales process still.
Joe Banach:And that I'm selling myself to these patients. They need to trust me, and they I need to sell them for them to do the stuff at home that I'm telling them to do as well. So I always like that I was I was working in athletics, and I I was working with high level athletes, but I wasn't the best therapist there yet, but I was still getting to work with a lot of the higher profile ones, not because I was the best, but I think I was able to form good relationships. So I I carried that forward to sales, and I've been in the medical device space for about five years now.
Heath Fletcher:Yeah. It's interesting. Well, you kinda answered one of my questions was how you and how you went from being a direct patient care, person to to actually working in the sales side of things. And, I mean, you you sales is a trust is a trust event. Right?
Heath Fletcher:Like, it's it's building that trust with people anyway, so you kinda develop the skill of helping people with their physical pain points and and then transitioning that to actually being more more more centered. So tell me about where you're at now because you've got some interesting things happening over at, Next Step.
Joe Banach:Yeah. I'm I'm with Next Step Robotics now. I'm the director of sales and marketing since we are a we're a startup company, so everybody has their hand in everything in that situation. But it's really cool in that rehab. So we're in the rehab space, like especially after somebody has a stroke, brain injury, spinal cord injury.
Joe Banach:Traditionally, robotics in rehab has kind of taken a patient for a walk, almost, taking them for a ride. Our robotic, the patient contributes to the movement as much as possible, and the robotic bridges the gap the rest of the way. So it's a it's a really cool thing because we have such great research behind it. And now the the issue with it is the reason why marketing and sales is needed is we need to educate the market on what kind of robotics really make a huge difference in these patients' lives.
Heath Fletcher:Yeah. And maybe explain how these are but this robotic actually works because when I was listening to some of the testimonials and them looking at how it operates, you actually it's called Amble, right?
Joe Banach:That's the name of the product. Yep.
Heath Fletcher:So and that and it's used in house. So people come in, they use the the the use the the robotics in house during their during their therapy sessions. Right?
Joe Banach:That's correct. So let's say they're they're in for physio or physical therapy. They they really see in the studies that they need about nine hours total with our robotic to make the massive difference that we find in the research.
Heath Fletcher:Right.
Joe Banach:So that could be eighteen half hour sessions, it could be nine one hour sessions, what whatever the patient's able to make work. Because it makes such a difference, we don't have to send this home with the patient. Like you said, they're just using it in house, and then, hopefully, they're having more autonomy and independence at home.
Heath Fletcher:And how is this different than what their treatment previously was? What what what's the difference between the two?
Joe Banach:Yeah. So physical and occupational therapists are the the workhorses, like to making sure people get the recovery that's needed. If you're throwing technology into the mix, it's a great way to supplement that high intensity or high you know, everyone's used to hearing dose with pharmacologic or medicine, but we look at it in physical therapy as getting the dose, aka how much movement are they doing. So sometimes technology or robotics can help deliver a higher dose as long as we're already as long as the patient has that ability. So currently, some technologies are have been a replacement, though.
Joe Banach:So they're they're a replacement, maybe doing less dosage, maybe not doing as much for the patient as we thought they they would maybe ten or twenty years ago when these technologies came out. Whereas we believe that the shift in this space is is indicating robotics should purely be a supplement. Should help you get more dosage and at tax the therapist or tax their bodies less than if they were having to move the patient's limb themselves.
Heath Fletcher:Right. Right. And then you use the word neuro in there as well. So you're you're you're obviously trying to teach the brain to up to operate with or without this device. Right?
Heath Fletcher:Is that
Joe Banach:Right. Exactly. Yeah. So there's a term called plasticity, and that basically, what you said with neuro is it's basically rewiring the brain.
Heath Fletcher:Right.
Joe Banach:So with with technologies, if they're replacing the movement or if the technology is doing the movement for the patient, you don't you don't really learn anything. The brain isn't learning a new movement, so it can't reinforce it,
Heath Fletcher:Right.
Joe Banach:Whereas if if it's just supplementing or aiding the patient, then they're creating those new pathways and rewiring the brain to make some change.
Heath Fletcher:And I I think I I caught just that you're actually following that that cognitive connection, right? As part of this therapy
Joe Banach:in terms of like trying to treat the cognitive aspect.
Heath Fletcher:No, like like that that there is a there is a relationship between what they're thinking and what they're what they're doing.
Joe Banach:Oh, exactly. Yeah. So the really to to relate to your question is if they're actively not only they actively their muscles doing it, but then like you said, they're actively contributing their own effort mentally, and they're they're almost gamifying it themselves. They're they're trying to, they can see on our software, okay, the robot helped me this much last session. I want it to help me less this time.
Joe Banach:So they're actively adding that cognitive component, like you said.
Heath Fletcher:It's interesting because then now you're talking about more data driven results. Right? You're actually say, hey. So here, this actually works. So here's how here's the proof and probably reinforces for them that, oh, I am making progress because Yes.
Heath Fletcher:You find that with with patients in this kind of therapy that they struggle with that is that they just don't I mean, it's a hit, you know, you know, when health issues hit us, you know, it's a hit to our confidence and our self esteem and how is this gonna how are we gonna come out of this and depending on the individual. So this must be a real game changer for that, you know, reinstaling more confidence and and and and positive thinking that, oh, this is actually gonna work.
Joe Banach:For sure. And it like, our software actually shows them step by step how much the robot is doing, how much they're doing. So it's a really nice way to reinforce whatever is positive that they're doing. If if a clinic, though, doesn't have any technology that a therapist can still use gamification, they can write stuff down on post it notes or whatever. Just tell them verbally to show them how much they did better.
Joe Banach:But to your original question like that, it's so important to address their their lack of confidence and what the research really shows any positive reinforcement, they call it gamification now, but any metrics, data we can give them is really huge. So our that's how we weave that in our solution and that the data is calculated automatically. The therapist can have that data and share with the patient right away.
Heath Fletcher:That's great. And then data is also very valuable for other purposes to, you know, validating the product to investors, for example, or two other other growth expansion for the for the company to write. That's
Joe Banach:for sure. I mean, some of the investor meetings we've we've been on where we're still very early, like just just about to enter series a, basically.
Heath Fletcher:So how many years has that been then?
Joe Banach:Well, there's been a lot of there's a lot of personal challenges or not challenges, but things that were going on in the personal lives of our founders like after we first got NIH funding. So after doing some more clinical studies, if that really the product itself really launched in September of twenty four.
Heath Fletcher:Oh, wow. Oh,
Joe Banach:yeah. So yes, very recent. So we've been been been getting to a lot of clinics really spreading the word. And then when you mentioned the investors, some of the investors when they see especially if they have a medical background, when they see some of our before after images of people walking before, it's like they they think it's science fiction, you know? So so, yes, to to your point, it does it has been helping with spreading the word and and momentum with investors as well.
Heath Fletcher:Amazing. Tell me a little bit about how when you came on board and you had to to was when did you come on board last year sometime?
Joe Banach:July. July. So just a couple months before.
Heath Fletcher:So you're coming in. You're getting to know this this device and what it's gonna do. When you're kind of putting together your, you know, sales and marketing strategy, how did you approach that? How did you what what was the how did you do that?
Joe Banach:Yeah. It was it was a lot of brainstorming that went into it. And and any anybody else in your audience that listens to this, I'd I'd love to hear any feedback actually. And and that I tried to approach it as even though we are very new, I want to I want to approach it still that I want to create the foundation to get inbound leads whatever way we could. Even though I knew that was gonna be very rare.
Joe Banach:We're in a niche space already, but then we're brand new Right. Also. So so it's a it's a challenge, but that that was my main purpose was create content, create a story. So we're adding value to anybody who sees anything about our company so that we can start getting some inbound contacts all at the same time as me using all my past contacts in the space and just doing all the traditional sales stuff of just outbound, outbound, outbound, and just a lot of lot of cold and warm outreach.
Heath Fletcher:Right. Right. And when you got there, I mean, what did you see were the biggest challenges that were for the company at that point? What, you know, I mean, besides being a startup and being new, but were there other challenges that you had to overcome in when you first got there?
Joe Banach:Yeah. Just in terms of, like, what we talked about a little earlier in our chat is educating the market. I I feel like that's always tough, but especially in the space of robotics, like, whole mission was to create actual impact, but make it affordable for clinics.
Heath Fletcher:Right. Right.
Joe Banach:Yeah. So because of that, like, we didn't we didn't wanna make this the sexiest robot, maybe, quote unquote, and and make it as expensive as maybe some others. We we kept that cost down for us and for the and for the customer, but educating the customer on on why it looks like maybe a a bit clunky, like, you know, so there a lot of devices in the past have truthfully been used for for marketing for hospitals sometimes as well. Mhmm. So trying to educate them and get past some of those barriers that, hey, this is truly for outcomes.
Joe Banach:If if if we're truly looking at improved outcomes and making a difference in the patient lives or the the end users lives, this is the this is the type of technology we should be looking at. The biggest challenge was really just getting past those tradition traditional things that were in our market of of using devices as a marketing tool as opposed to truly focusing on the outcomes for the patient.
Heath Fletcher:Right. Giving them true value. Right? Right. So your end buyer is who then?
Heath Fletcher:Like, who who's buying the product in the end?
Joe Banach:Yeah. Physical therapy departments, most specifically, a word you mentioned earlier, neurophysical therapy department. So very niche. So it's all it tends to be clinics that treat a high volume of people recovering from a stroke.
Heath Fletcher:Right. Right. And so far, your feedback's been good with the ones that are that are using it now. Yeah.
Joe Banach:Yeah. It is. It's it's been fun. The the nice thing, one of the really interesting things of why I joined Next Step Robotics is they already did so much market research before launching and designing our current version of the robotics. They talked to over 200 therapists.
Joe Banach:Oh, wow. So the the setup time was already what therapists look look for.
Heath Fletcher:Right.
Joe Banach:They already had a lot of the things that streamlined it for the physical therapy daily flow. So so, yeah, so far so good. The the other thing that relates to challenge you asked about earlier is our sales cycle is usually nine to twelve months.
Heath Fletcher:Oh, wow.
Joe Banach:So so we have some partners already, but they'll it it'll really accelerate once we actually get past the full sales cycle.
Heath Fletcher:Yeah. Yeah. No kidding. Yeah. Nine to twelve, it's big.
Heath Fletcher:Well, I guess it probably it's just a justifying the fact that they probably already have invested in some sort of equipment by this point. Right. But so it's understanding how that will impact them moving forward. And and and so, you know, one of my other questions was you talked about how they've already kind of addressed some of the challenges, like like what you're talking about as far as growth goes. Mhmm.
Heath Fletcher:But I wanted to ask you about there are things in the in the in the industry in this space already that have been created and and, like you said, have been used mostly for marketing purposes and not so much for patient outcome. So tell me a little bit more about that, about who what is your competition like? Is it pretty steep? I mean, the the whole health tech industry is is, like, exploding.
Joe Banach:So Yeah.
Heath Fletcher:Tell me about how the struggles around that.
Joe Banach:Yeah. When you mentioned the health tech is exploding, we really compete with everybody in the rehab space. So that's that's what makes it difficult is we have some direct competitors that treat the same diagnosis or deficits in a patient, but we're really competing with virtual reality companies as well, companies that create harnesses for people to walk in, because it all comes from the same budget.
Heath Fletcher:Right.
Joe Banach:So we have, you know, our direct competitors are are places that also target foot drop or other deficits after a stroke. But like I said, we we might lose on an opportunity in this space because they needed three new treatment tables as well. Know? So Right. It's we're kinda competing for everything in the rehab space.
Heath Fletcher:The same dollars coming off the same budget line. Right? Yeah.
Joe Banach:Right. Exactly.
Heath Fletcher:So is that one of your biggest challenges you see in in growth moving forward? Or do you have other challenges that you're sort of facing?
Joe Banach:It's a good question. I I think that's the biggest challenge in initial growth. Long term growth is the biggest challenges for us, I guess that relates to the first part too, is we just need to get enough growth in the first part for the bigger rehab, not not necessarily chains, but national rehab companies to to trust us, like, to
Heath Fletcher:Right.
Joe Banach:To invest in us because there's because the space is so difficult, and and we can go into why it's difficult, but so many companies have gone out of business in the last few years.
Heath Fletcher:Right.
Joe Banach:So they're Right. National companies are hesitant to Hesitant. Somebody like us because
Heath Fletcher:fear in there for that. Yeah.
Joe Banach:Yep. Yeah. They're they're nervous they're gonna get their therapist all excited to use it, and then we're out of business.
Heath Fletcher:Right.
Joe Banach:You know? So Right. So, yeah, we just need as much early success as possible so we can we can build on that and build our trust in the marketplace.
Heath Fletcher:I mean, because ongoing, I mean, you you have a person invest in one of these devices, starts implementing them. It's not like you'd say, oh, here you go. Here's the keys. And, yeah, and you don't you don't see them again for five years. There's probably ongoing upkeep software support enhancements, things like that.
Heath Fletcher:So how are you how is the company addressing that as part as part of your growth plan?
Joe Banach:Yeah. With my with my background in in therapy and then really all of our four founders are involved. They come out of rehab or rehab research. So that was very sensitive to us on creating like an education plan for them. So that that doesn't necessarily address some of your question on how we're planning to address all those issues, but the main thing is with education in that we're we're we're approved for CEUs for the the irregular training as well as the advanced training.
Joe Banach:So we plan to just be actual partners with these clinics and that we're always customizing our their training needs
Heath Fletcher:Right.
Joe Banach:Month by month, quarter by quarter, whatever they need.
Heath Fletcher:What's a CEU?
Joe Banach:Oh, sorry. Yeah. So that's a continuing education credit.
Heath Fletcher:Oh, okay.
Joe Banach:So yeah. Like, nurses, physical therapists, and anybody they need a certain amount of hours every two years usually to keep their license.
Heath Fletcher:Okay. Gotcha. It's ongoing. Okay. Yeah.
Heath Fletcher:Could probably call this something else in this in our in Canada. But
Joe Banach:Probably.
Heath Fletcher:Yeah. It's all. We didn't know those kind of acronyms.
Joe Banach:Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah. So if you can, like, if they're already investing in you, and then you can at least give them some
Heath Fletcher:For sure.
Joe Banach:You're giving them the outcomes and a nice technology, but if you can give them something that the therapist usually have to pay for out of their own pocket, then that that tends to be appreciated.
Heath Fletcher:Yeah. Absolutely. What else is reshaping the rehab clinic base? So there are other things that I mean, you there are lots of things you're competing with. Like you said, they're coming, you know, from things that they would they've only got so much money to spend on certain things.
Heath Fletcher:So are there other things out there that you're that are forefront, or do you think this because this is very patient focused and has and you can validate outcome, and you can prove to patients and investors and anybody else, buyers, that there is data behind this and it shows it. Do you think that's enough to overcome else is going on in the space?
Joe Banach:I think it's what you mentioned in the first part of your question is definitely still gonna be a barrier. And that that one of the biggest threats, one of the biggest external threats to our market is physical therapists, at least as of the last two years, have the highest turnover out of any
Heath Fletcher:Oh, wow.
Joe Banach:Phase in health care. So I think they doubled the the nursing turnover last
Heath Fletcher:year. So
Joe Banach:because of that, some therapy departments, they don't wanna invest in technology. They wanna invest in staff retention, which is very understandable.
Heath Fletcher:Sure.
Joe Banach:You know, so so that that's probably the biggest threat in that. Sometimes we'll go to a facility and be like, hey, we believe in your outcomes. We believe in in what you're saying. But I just we have to focus on just delivering therapy at all. We need we need bodies in here, and and we need to have the ability to actually deliver the therapy.
Joe Banach:So Yeah. Maybe we can talk again in a couple years. You know?
Heath Fletcher:Yeah. Well, for sure. Yeah. I'd like to see where where where this goes. Yeah.
Heath Fletcher:I mean, because you are really balancing sort of this, you know, this world of technology, and and there's so much there's so much going on and so much distraction. But at the same time, you're very patient focused Mhmm. Which I think from a from a patient perspective, you know, the demand on their end would probably be quite high to say, oh, I'm I really want to use this. I really wanna have be able have access to this device. So I think that's pretty interesting.
Joe Banach:Yeah. That's it's interesting you bring that up because we probably when we talked about inbound leads earlier Mhmm. I maybe am getting three to five inbound leads from clinics a month, but it's probably close to 15 patients a month.
Heath Fletcher:Wow.
Joe Banach:Which is which is tough, though, because we're not in that. We're not able to actually offer it to them in the home. Yes, exactly. Yeah.
Heath Fletcher:But I mean, if they're actually seeing it and going to their physiotherapist saying Mhmm. Or or or therapist and saying, I saw this product. I I want I want this. You know, maybe there's an outlet and a way to drive it from that direction too. Right?
Heath Fletcher:Know, it's like what the the drug ads where they say, talk to your doctor about Yeah. Right. Whatever it is. It's like you're getting the end buyer to actually go and ask for this product or this device and saying, I want this. That really does validate the potential for for that that therapist to then use that.
Joe Banach:Yeah. Oh, yeah. That's exactly right. I mean, there we talk about, especially in like SaaS sales and things like that, like creating that champion and creating that advocate for you towards the end of the process. Yeah, in ours, if we can create that champion on the front on the front end, it's yeah, tends to be pretty helpful.
Heath Fletcher:Well, that's a good segue to because I wanted to ask you what what kind of sales avenues have you have you approached and and what's working best for you?
Joe Banach:So with my background in physical therapy, sales seemed even though I always thought of in sales, it it still was very intimidating when I when I truly entered sales. But I was very comforted once I started following people, especially like affiliated with HubSpot and Gong, when you could see how much data was in a lot of sales. And so that made me comfortable because I've been analyzing data on how to treat patients. So now I just carried that forward to sales. So SaaS sales are probably the folks I've I've learned the most from.
Joe Banach:Specifically, I I would consider like anything Mark Roberge writes is is something that I I tend to kinda use as a as a guidebook for for the way I sell. So, yeah, I guess the the biggest thing was just when I first started, you know, you kinda saw a lot of sales, especially in devices is just, you know, popping into the office, just talking to the front desk people, trying to trying to befriend them whether it was genuine or not. And and I just wasn't comfortable with that, so I I wanted to implement a true sales process. And so it's always been about true that that regular flow of going from prospecting to discovery to see if us in a clinic are good partners for each other.
Heath Fletcher:Right.
Joe Banach:And then go to the demo and then take it from there.
Heath Fletcher:Right. And then you rolled out a podcast called tonight.
Joe Banach:I did.
Heath Fletcher:I did. Yeah, which is really good. I I've listened to a couple episodes actually. It's it's awesome. So
Joe Banach:I appreciate that.
Heath Fletcher:Yeah. I was I was like, oh, well, I Joe knows what he's doing. So it's not going to be
Joe Banach:Oh, I definitely I definitely do not. No. It's think think heavens for technology, for sure. I it does it does most of it.
Heath Fletcher:Well, it's I mean, a lot of it has to do with who you're talking to and you're, you know, you've got some great you have really good guests. You know, you you took that on and and they've done how many episodes?
Joe Banach:19 now.
Heath Fletcher:Have you seen results now? I mean, 19 episodes, that's substantial, but what it did that is that showing or indicating? I think it's a long game, but
Joe Banach:Yeah. Definitely. Yeah. Definitely a long game. A lot of it to just to be candid about it, half of it was because as a physical therapist, I still wanted to I didn't wanna get too rusty with my clinical knowledge.
Joe Banach:So that was half of the Right.
Heath Fletcher:That's good. Yes. There's a the motivation there. Right? Yeah.
Joe Banach:For sure. Yeah. Absolutely. And then, really, the rest of it was, like, what you mentioned with the long game is to provide value to the customers however I could. So it's it's trying to spread whatever's the the newest thing in research to them.
Joe Banach:And, also, it's been really helpful to have customers talking to each other. Mhmm. Even though it's not really about the product I'm working with, it's about maybe some research they talked about on the podcast. But that's been really helpful. There's really to help with not that it was my intention for them to trust me more because of that, but it it has helped with them gaining trust in in me and what I'm selling
Heath Fletcher:Right.
Joe Banach:And and just creating a community around it.
Heath Fletcher:Right. And that said, what are what are your channels? Like, how are you actually what using to mostly market your product in the in the device?
Joe Banach:Yeah. Mostly mostly all social media. Yeah. Most part. And then a lot of warm and cold email outreach.
Joe Banach:Cold calls are definitely still a thing, but it's Yeah. It's it's mostly socials trying to trying to tell the story with visuals.
Heath Fletcher:Yeah. I mean, content creation, I don't know for you, but content creation is always a challenge for mean, it's
Joe Banach:Mhmm.
Heath Fletcher:The biggest challenge for people. Sure. You have lots of opportunity from as you have your website up now, you've got lots of opportunity to show cool things. You got science, you got data. So you don't feel like you're short on content, do you?
Joe Banach:I do not. No. It's it's definitely gonna be it's gonna be fun when we get past that first sales cycle and we have dozens of partners, and then we have dozens of patient testimonials to follow because we really wanna highlight what's important with the patient improvements. And and right now, a lot we have dozens and dozens of patients that came out of our clinical trials, but that was that was before we really truly knew that this was going to go to market. It was really just a research robot.
Joe Banach:So now some of those patients are gone. Like, their their story was never told
Heath Fletcher:Oh, yeah. Unfortunately. So Yeah. Those case studies and testimonials will be really valuable for you guys. Yeah.
Heath Fletcher:Sure. I was real I watched Vivian's. That was pretty good.
Joe Banach:Oh, yeah.
Heath Fletcher:She's pretty excited just to put wear a normal pair of shoes, she said.
Joe Banach:Yeah. Yeah. That was cool. Attitude she had as she said it too. Yeah.
Heath Fletcher:And so metrics for you. Tell me about metrics. What what are what's most important for you when you're looking at at the socials on your content? What what are you measuring? How are you measuring your value there?
Joe Banach:Probably new traffic to the website, like, actually getting a click through rate from whether it's a social post or an email marketing to our website.
Heath Fletcher:Right.
Joe Banach:So that that's what's that's what's in most reliable to actually show that's having an impact much more so than, like, reactions on any of the posts.
Heath Fletcher:And then call to action wise, is it really it's really, you know, filling out the form and and saying it in, and then someone follows up with that.
Joe Banach:Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. It could be just a contact form, or they can they can sign up for a virtual discovery call or demo right from the website.
Heath Fletcher:Right.
Joe Banach:So that's the main call to action. I I guess my the biggest struggle I still have with with marketing and and with content creation is is how often you you put that ask in there. You know, I I'll I'll a lot of people feel differently about who what I'm about to say, but I I tend to like a lot of stuff Alex Hormozi does and puts together on that. You know, he's always about keep providing content until somebody asks you for anything else. Right.
Joe Banach:And I and I like that philosophy, but it's tough you need to survive as a company. Yeah. You know? So that's a hard thing to juggle.
Heath Fletcher:Yeah. Absolutely. And and being a startup too makes it you're kind of in a tight spot. You kinda gotta sit in there somewhere and and make it make it work until you hit that point where it's like, okay. Now you can spend more money on, you know, paid advertising and things like that.
Heath Fletcher:Yeah.
Joe Banach:For sure.
Heath Fletcher:Yeah. If you were gonna if you could solve one thing tomorrow, overcome one challenge in the business, what would it be?
Joe Banach:It's so hard for us to get to the right contact, like, efficiently. So I I know there's a lot of software out there that tries to solve that, but lead generation software that can actually get you to that rehab technology decision maker would be it would cut out endless time
Heath Fletcher:for us.
Joe Banach:So lead lead gen software has definitely helped, but I still sometimes I'm still going through five to 10 contacts to to get to that right person.
Heath Fletcher:Yeah. It's an old ratio. Right? That whole 5% magic number kinda thing. It never seems to go I don't know what it is, but someone's gotta crack that code one of these days.
Heath Fletcher:Absolutely. Maybe it'll be bulls eye out.
Joe Banach:Yeah. That'd be sweet. We'll see.
Heath Fletcher:I'll let you know if they do.
Joe Banach:Yes. And keep it and keep it affordable for us startups. That'd be the other the second problem with that. Yeah.
Heath Fletcher:Any other any anything else you wanna talk about around NextDepth robotics or the Amble product? Is there something that we haven't really covered that you want do you wanna mention?
Joe Banach:No. I appreciate you highlighting us a little bit. I not that I necessarily expected it, but I I guess I would I would just like to point out that we'll create a robotic for the arm that'll be released most likely next year.
Heath Fletcher:Right. Wow.
Joe Banach:So yeah. And then there'll be a gait monitoring device as well. So Right. Some some clinics have, like, you know, tens of thousand dollar devices to measure how people walk. Right.
Joe Banach:But this is gonna be a much cheaper version of giving you the same data. So that that's all stuff that's on the horizon for us.
Heath Fletcher:Well, that's pretty exciting. So there's it you're you're not stopping. You're there's new products coming out already.
Joe Banach:Absolutely. I didn't know if you want it. The only the only thing I was thinking of is just because I enjoy this nerdy aspect of sales is I think conversational intelligence has any of those kind of applications have totally changed sales and sales coaching. I think that's been an excellent addition.
Heath Fletcher:Okay. Explain that a little bit for me. Conversational intelligence. How do you define that?
Joe Banach:So conversational intelligence apps are part of a tech stack that can do that is, I guess, the easiest way to describe it is just recording the calls Right. Creating transcripts. But then the next step from there is how you can actually use that in the sales process and in the sales coaching process for any of your direct reports as well. So if you're using it in the sales process, I love it because you can actually chop up some of the videos from your discovery call, chop up some clips, and then you can when you're confirming your value later in the sales process with them, you can show them what you talked about in the discovery call
Heath Fletcher:Right.
Joe Banach:Or or even put us call to action on those videos. And then the the sales coaching aspect has been awesome just to be able to go through calls with people and go over what they what the AI thought they did well and what they did wrong and then kind of analyzing that together.
Heath Fletcher:So yes, you're leveraging AI as in that And are you leveraging it in any other way?
Joe Banach:I I definitely I I can obsess over especially when you mentioned content creation, I can obsess over every little detail. So I I love AI for editing and stuff like that. Like just refinement
Heath Fletcher:Yeah.
Joe Banach:Of of of my messaging and and and content overall.
Heath Fletcher:It's very helpful. Yeah. Yes. Absolutely. It's very helpful.
Heath Fletcher:Any particular product you're using that you like?
Joe Banach:For a while, we use Gemini for a lot of the, like, basic day to day messaging. Canva for all has really nice AI components
Heath Fletcher:now for Really good.
Joe Banach:Actually creating the content. Yeah. So that's been cool. And then the the conversational intelligence we use is is I guess they're they're a little bit of an older company than us, but still a startup. Are called Clap.
Joe Banach:I believe they're originally out of France, actually. Oh, really? That's been her competition.
Heath Fletcher:Oh, interesting. Okay. That's good. There's some there's some nuggets in there for sure. Yeah.
Heath Fletcher:%. Mean, looking ahead, future of health care, there's lots going on. Do you any do you see any other major disruption in in your area in the near future here besides the arm that you're good you're in the middle of creating?
Joe Banach:No. That's that's really the main thing is just will we get stability in rehab
Heath Fletcher:Yeah.
Joe Banach:For the for the actual market? Can we can we stop the turnover in reality and and kinda so so that's really one of my hopes with with technology like this is that it increases job satisfy job satisfaction because they see better outcomes with their patients.
Heath Fletcher:Right. Right. So I I do a do a sign that to burnout. Is that part of it? Is it just it's just such a hard it's a it's a there's so much happening is Yeah.
Heath Fletcher:Yeah. It's just burnout that's taken them out of the game.
Joe Banach:Yeah. A lot of burnout and what contributes to that is just such a high amount of documentation time mixed with insurance not allowing nearly as many visits as they used to. So Oh, really? Feel like you're you're going through all that while at the same time not seeing as many improvements in your patients.
Heath Fletcher:So you Right.
Joe Banach:Know I battled with that as a as a physio. It's like I it's hard to see your purpose as much as Right. As you may have
Heath Fletcher:And patients decade or
Joe Banach:more ago.
Heath Fletcher:Patients struggle with with doing the exercises too. Right? I mean
Joe Banach:For sure.
Heath Fletcher:And then that's what what I've heard from a lot of therapists is that it's getting patients to actually do the stretching, do the homework, and come back and making progress. So it's it's a smaller percentage of people who are who are really, really into their recovery plan, and they need a and but others need a little bit more support, a little more encouragement. So, yeah, reducing those number of visits would probably really impact that for sure.
Joe Banach:Absolutely. Yeah.
Heath Fletcher:Awesome. Well, I can't thank you enough for taking time out to sit here with me. I know you've gotta get to another meeting. So I just wanna thank you for being with me today and sharing a little bit of your world and where you've come from and and what you're doing at Next Step Robotics. It sounds like really cool stuff.
Heath Fletcher:So I'll get you back on here again, And I wanna hear more. Maybe we'll have talk about the arm when it comes out and so we'll stay in touch and and Appreciate
Joe Banach:you and and keep I I love to just keep staying in tune with your podcast as I my favorite thing about this field is how much you can continue to learn from everybody else and especially even in little other industries. So Yeah. I'm excited to follow you.
Heath Fletcher:Thanks. I'm really excited about the guest lineup that we've gone. I've got sort of some of it nailed down, but I I'm looking forward to it. It's quite diverse, but I think it's interesting to kind of be in a position to help a variety of of businesses and individuals in the health care, health tech space with a lot of good good feedback, good information like like yourself. Mhmm.
Heath Fletcher:One last thing, do you got a do you got a book recommendation for for for us out there?
Joe Banach:Oh, man. I am I my favorite. Like I told you, I love Mark Roberge. So the sales acceleration formula. I know it's it tends to be very macro, but I think it can help anybody in sales sales and marketing really.
Heath Fletcher:Yeah.
Joe Banach:So that'd be my number one. And then I love the nerdy stuff about what goes into the psychology with with negotiation and every little social interaction. So Never Split The Difference by Chris Voss would be my would be my other one.
Heath Fletcher:Ah, good one. Okay. Yeah. Never Split The Difference. Okay.
Heath Fletcher:Great. Awesome. What I heard Joe struggling with was really finding ways of, as most people do, reaching their target audience through the various communication tools that we have available to us in this modern world of marketing. You know, in in Joe's instance, it's interesting to hear that the because the end product is actually driven by patient outcome and the data that's collected is evidence that it does improve rehabilitation, not only from a scientific point of view, but in a, human point of view in the sense that it actually improves rehabilitation through building confidence and self esteem and more positive reinforcement for the for the patient. I think it's just a matter of time.
Heath Fletcher:They're they've got a great product. I will definitely have Joe back. I would like to hear more about the the arm that they're working on at the moment and see how they're making out. Perfect example of a startup at a really critical point in in reaching the their business and growth goals. Thanks for listening, and stay tuned.
Heath Fletcher:More to come.
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