Genetics Meets Business: Precision Medicine with Jessica Gibson

Hi. Welcome to the episode. My guest today is Jessica Gibson. She is the CEO and cofounder of Aerial Precision Medicine. Jessica started off in medicine and science as an education and then morphed herself into business and management, driving her day to day operations on a value of integrity and patient outcome.

I hope you enjoy this. Jessica, thank you for being with me today. I really appreciate you taking your taking a chance and, having a chat with me. So, yeah, let's, I wanna hear about you and about Ariel. So take me take me through that.

How did you get to this spot?

Yeah. So I'm Jessica Gibson. I'm CEO and helped to cofound Ariel Precision Medicine almost ten years ago now. And, my background, I studied emergency medicine at University of Pittsburgh. Was in gastroenterology research for a couple years when I just recognized the MD PhD track wasn't for me.

I really loved creating things and innovating and saw an opportunity to do that in industry. So built up a really successful career in the, pharmaceutical and genetic sequencing space. Always saw an opportunity for genetics to be utilized to better care for patients. You know, I wouldn't go into health care if I didn't actually care about doing good for people. So my cofounder, doctor David Whitcomb, was teaching a class at Carnegie Mellon in Pittsburgh at the time on precision medicine for biomedical engineers.

And it was really kind of the signal that technology was sophisticated to a point where it could actually efficiently be integrated into the way that we identify symptoms of a disease, use, the best data available to focus on what was actually driving it biologically, and then from there develop treatments that target that dysfunction in these complex chronic diseases with high unmet need. A lot of them are orphan disease, no treatments because, it was so challenging. So I am so grateful that we're about to hit our ten year mark. We've made pretty significant progress and are continuing on that trajectory just ready to hit our growth phase.

Well, congratulations. That's, yeah. Ten years goes by in a flash when you're, when you're really into what you're doing, isn't it?

It does.

And how did you so you started doing science. Right? And how did you what what point what what was the what turned on the light where you went, I'm gonna shift. I'm gonna shift from the science side of things to, like, being on the business side of science.

I mean, I've so somebody asked me previously, like, when did you know you were an entrepreneur? And I I wouldn't, you know, label myself that, but my parents told me, they're like, you were always out hustling. Like, we didn't give you money. We told you figure it out. And I was baking cookies and selling them through my neighborhood as a little kid, washing people's cars, always looking at kind of connecting, people with solutions or products that could help them or they'd be interested in.

So I would say in in the path to pursue a degree in medicine, I recognized, you know, this was twenty plus years ago. A lot of medical health care was protocol driven. So if this if you see this, then this is what you do. And, sometimes the actual appropriate solution is way down the list of all the different things you try and error. And I felt at that time, it didn't really give me an opportunity to be creative, to be innovative.

And I also have a lot of empathy, so it was really difficult for me to see people suffering right in front of me. Sometimes there wasn't something I could do to help. Emergency medicine probably wasn't the best track because you're right there.

Yeah. Frontline. Yeah.

I had a friend that, recruited me to California saying, you don't know this, but you're gonna be great in business. And I I kinda got the ick where I was like, oh, I like my ivory tower. I like doing the doing good. And, you know, she helped identify that, like, really what you're doing is helping people with their problems. You're connecting them with solutions that are gonna benefit them.

So, you know, built up a career. But I would say that for me, the tipping point of actually doing aerial is kind of coming from, you know, corporate America is a lot of times, you know, our approach in health care is treating symptoms. You know, we are managing symptoms and failing to actually, get to the root cause. And in a lot of, you know, chronic conditions, patients have the same presentation. They kind of have the same clinical symptoms.

So we treat them with, like, step one, step two, step three. And then if this fails, we'll try this. When, there are many different causes that can all look the same. So, you know, I when I was in gastroenterology research at University of Pittsburgh, the chief of gastroenterology, hepatology nutrition, doctor Whitcomb, had always been kind of a a maverick. He he did very out of the box thinking in the way that we can integrate multidisciplinary tools and converge them on helping a single patient.

And I thought that this would be a really cool way to fill a need, you know, I would say kind of the hub spoke model where you create a centralized tool and then actually parse out the pieces of information or the products or services to the stakeholder to streamline this whole, you know, health care journey patients find themselves on.

Mhmm. It's interesting because it is a journey, and it is a little bit overwhelming. I mean, to start with, you're you're dealing with a health issue that has confronted you and probably taken a person by surprise, and then they have to navigate this system of understanding, how it works. And it is a complex system. It really is.

So the fact that you can find that you found a way to kind of, you know, and more or less simplify, not only for the patient, but for the provider, a way to help almost fast track the diagnosis process so that you can get them into a more customized treatment plan. Right?

Right. You know, when you think of, like, digestive and metabolic diseases, which is an area that we're heavily focused in, you know, there if you have abdominal pain or something, there are literally a hundred different things that can cause that. Yeah. You know, like, I think it's one in five Americans suffers with, you know, some digestive or metabolic disease and the diagnostic odyssey that some of these patients have been through seeing so many different specialists getting every test under the sun when I think an objective piece of data like their genetics can help us hone in immediately at the onset of symptoms. We wanna know Mhmm.

What is causing this in you and remove the other 90% of things that are very low probability and help support physicians' clinical decisions on a enriched path of saying, you know, there's a high probability in this patient that these are the things that are driving or contributing to their disease progression. And, you know, another thing is our poor health care providers and physicians are so overwhelmed with so many different pieces of data that are coming out all the time. They've got fifteen minute visits to see some of these patients. It can be incredibly challenging and a heavy lift for them to figure out, you know, what are all the things that, we could be doing for this patient. And I think with, you know, the tools that we've tried to design, they're very, they're informed by physicians, designed for physicians and patients.

But how do we help physicians get in contact with the right information for each patient really early on in Right. A patient's journey?

And these tools you're talking about are based in AI. Right?

I mean, AI is a component. It's a tool.

Component. Yeah.

Yeah. I mean, I think Right. You know, the Human Genome Project was finished, like, very early February. '20 years later, we're still just scratching the surface on

Right.

How do we actually understand this data and implement it into our health care system. And a lot of doctors are not trained on genetics. It's also very complicated. So how do we use tools like, you know, AI as a broad umbrella to look at complex patterns in patients? So for genetic information, in rare disease, it can be binary.

You have one bad mutation that causes this full phenotype of a disease. But in most diseases, it's a combination of a couple of things like an engineering problem that are occurring simultaneously that can be impacted by an outside event. And then how do we help aggregate a comprehensive view of all the different systems that might not be working optimally that are causing this big problem. And then we can model and roll that back saying, okay, if we this system is 60% dysfunctional, How do we tip that threshold to where the patient's body's natural compensatory mechanism can come up can address it? How do we what are the levers that we pull or targeted treatments we use to return this patient to a healthy state?

Right. Because I've sometimes it's the treatment actually that, you know, they get the the illness can be sort of, taken care of, but then sometimes the treatment has its own side effects or its own, byproduct on the individual. And and so this is something you're trying to eliminate, of more perfect the treatment process so that it has less impact on the person and more impact on the disease. Right?

Yeah. Absolutely. That's a great point. Right. Because it's not, I'd say the field of like pharmacogenomics really caught my interest, probably about seventeen, eighteen years ago.

And that was where, you know, the it goes through how a patient's body breaks down different drugs and different things. And where Ariel is moving a little bit further upstream is, you know, are is the actual right disease being treated? Is the right process being treated? And then from there, something like pharmacogenomics is a useful tool in saying, okay, this is what we're actually targeting. What are the, therapeutics or interventions that are this patient's gonna respond best to?

And and moving beyond this, we'll try this for three months. If it doesn't work, then we'll try this or we'll add two more medicines on. And these patients are sometimes taking five, six, seven pills where some of them were to cover the symptoms of another pill, and they may not actually be metabolizing it in, you know, appropriate amount or they might need a dose adjustment. So I think all of these components are really critical to helping a doctor and the patients and their families and caregivers know how can we be informed in the way that we approach, you know, my health and in on an individual patient basis. So it's really, how do at Ariel, we're focusing on flagging early symptoms of a disease, using a patient's own genetics to kinda see how they're hard coded in, where there might be dysfunction and alerting the provider to that.

And then if there's a treatment decision made from there, you know, where does something like pharmacogenomics come in? And then as a precision medicine company, we we happen to use genetics as a tool. We have a we have a platform that integrates clinical, environmental, and genetic information for each patient. But kind of like that hub spoke model where we create a centralized technology, the data can be used for different stakeholders where, you know, used for patients, used for providers, used for, you know, diagnostics to select, you know, which biomarkers might be appropriate for measuring a dysfunction and for treatment. The it's the medicine part that the precision technology facilitates in a precision medicine solution.

So we're we're actually using our technology to develop first in disease treatments like actual therapeutics

Right.

For, you know, chronic diseases with high unmet need.

Right. So providers can you know, the a patient can either come in with a with an existing illness or maybe a even a family trait that they're concerned about. Right? And get that test done and predetermine if, oh, you are actually genetically predisposed to that condition or that illness. Yeah.

And how to, you know, emotionally, mentally prepare for it, but also to have a bit of a plan of attack as to how to manage that moving forward. But you their patient patients are doing that with a lot more clarity and so are the providers. Right? I mean, it's really interesting that Ariel sits in that space where you are actually, you know, direct, in direct relationship with the patient in a sense as well as a provider. Mhmm.

And like you say, multiple stakeholders in the process to far and and back end getting to pharmaceuticals. So Yeah. It's a very interesting position to be in to have an effect on all those different areas.

Yeah. And and, you know, in the disease application when we're looking at something like pancreatitis or pancreatic cancer, you know, your genetics don't change. You know, your patient reported six years old and 36 is the same, but their clinical context might be, very different. So what we're trying to flag is not everything under the sun that you're at risk for, but if there's symptoms of a disease or or a family history of concern, how do we, you know, in the use case of pancreatic cancer, how do we identify patients that are in high risk groups so they can get focused screening? You know, there's some really cool liquid biopsy technology coming out for picking up pancreatic cancer, but it there's a portion of the patients that don't make that, marker.

So Right. The provider where we inform the provider of where that patient is saying, you know, this you know, some liquid biopsies might not be appropriate for this patient because they don't make this marker or, you know, kind of giving that lead time to pick up, you know, anything any changes that are happening as soon as possible.

Interesting. I can see how this was so interesting to you and and drew you in. It's it's really it's really interesting. So on that note, think about how so you here you were. You were, you know, in science, and then all of a sudden, you got recruited to California, and you're now, working in the corporate world.

How did you how did you mesh those things, you know, with, you know, thinking about your values and your philosophies? How did you mesh these two worlds? Because you were a little bit hesitant about moving into corporate America. How did you bridge that gap?

Yeah. I mean, I think I I have a lot of curiosity. I get I can get bored, so I tend to go really deep into, you know, wanting to understand all of the different aspects. I think in when I was in pharma, it helped me to, really deeply understand the, you think, like, The US health care system or

Right.

The process of patients. Intricate? Yes. You know, when it goes from, you know, a hospital organization or insurance or, disease focus, you know, there's so many different components that kind of under the hood that people don't appreciate. Mhmm.

And I I think I've really made it a component of, like, a core value I have is to operate with integrity, is to be transparent and honest in saying, you know, this probably isn't a great fit for you or, you know, there's concerns here. You might want to consider something different.

Mhmm.

And then something that I think I was confronted with is I I came out of kind of a medical track with a little bit of rose colored glasses thinking everybody just wants to help, you know, people, you know, we wanna do good. And, you know, there were some elements in the pharmaceutical industry that I was confronted with where, you know, I was doing the right things. I was reporting things. I was, you know, appropriately educating, you know, providers or different stakeholders with the the scientific peer reviewed evidence that I had access to. And then there was this pull to kind of bleed that line, and I was just not about it.

I had, because, you know, I have family members that are chronically ill, and in my mind, there's always a patient on the other end of it, and I'm I'm not messing around with that. And I just I kept getting promoted. I'm a incredibly hard worker. And I just got to the point where I said, you know, I want to do something meaningful and not, be stuck in a system that is going in a different direction than aligns with my values. So, I went back to school, got my executive MBA.

I continue to try to equip myself to lead Ariel and, you know, be useful and helpful to, you know, the health care community. I've gotten the board of, you know, the National Pancreas Foundation, is a national patient advocacy group, nonprofit, and just trying to keep integrated into a path that aligns with where I think health care optimally should be heading.

Amazing. Yeah. So I think a lot of people can probably relate to being in that position at some point in their career, particularly in health care because you're like you said, you know, there is always a patient at the other end. Doesn't matter what aspect of health care we're talking about. That's the need.

And we it's people gotta keep that in mind. So I'm sure you're gonna have that will probably inspire a few people to do a career change. During your transition in your in your career and starting with Ariel, give me some insight on, some of the challenges you faced in your role, you know, getting Ariel off the ground. You're the cofounder. So you've been there, during all sort of the initial roads and and obstacles that, you know, typically hit businesses.

But give me an insight on how that went through and then maybe some challenges that you went through and how you kind of, resolved those.

Yeah. So I had taken management training courses and decided I did not want to be a boss. I love helping people. I love being useful, but I just didn't want to, like, tell people what to do. And when we started Ariel, I was the chief commercial officer.

I was responsible for generating business and building a lot of the products, really chief operating officer as well. And at that time, we had an experienced seasoned CEO that had kind of come out of the pancreatic disease space. But about eighteen months in, it just became apparent that it just wasn't a great fit. The how rapidly technology was emerging was just difficult for them to keep up with. So the board and my CFO asked if I would temporarily step in as CEO, and that was eight years later.

So still waiting for them to get a real CEO. But, you know

You must be doing

a good job then. Honestly, I I recognize that my leadership style works for a company like Ariel. You know, I'm really focused on finding incredibly brilliant, talented people and putting them in a position to be successful. And, honestly, I can say, you know, I'm a great creative problem solver, but I'm really here to help. How can I equip you to be successful?

What are the resources that we need in order to meet this milestone or execute? I'm very goal oriented. So it's been an incredible experience to just adapt some of my strengths to, you know, this role in leading the company, and I'm really grateful for I'd say that some of the challenges were just the best learning opportunities.

Right. That's very true. Yeah. That if you don't learn from them, if we can't you can't learn if we don't fail. Right?

So Adjust. Is part of the it part of the power size. Yep. And what so in when you're looking thinking about from a business perspective, what point in your in your in your trajectory over the last nine years where, I guess, you started experiencing growth. What do you think led to that, and how did you how did you adjust to to meet that growth?

So, you know, our initial focus is on an orphan disease called pancreatitis. And one of the things that we invested heavily is understanding from health care providers, doctors that are managing these really sick patients, both in the clinical setting and then in research, what are the gaps and how can we fill them? So working with a number of consortiums focused on pancreatic cancer, diabetes, pancreatitis, you know, we were able to create kind of a win win scenario where we're generating our own data and gleaning pretty groundbreaking insights from that. But how do we equip, you know, the key opinion leaders and the leaders at the forefront of research in this space, you know, with the tools to kind of find that find new discoveries faster and more efficiently. So I would say that growth was really helpful because it not only helped to reinforce what we were doing was meeting a need, but it's continued to help build out our reputation.

You know, I'd say when it comes to, you know, complex diseases, there has been, you know, some scratching of the surface of, you know, different ways to approach it. But, you know, we're creating an archetype with the disease like pancreatitis for, you know, other unsolved problems to deeply understand it, equip the stakeholders with the best information, and ultimately continue to move the needle on patient care.

Mhmm. So and in somewhere in there, in that phase, you also had to discover and navigate incredible amounts of technology hitting you and hitting the industry. And, I mean, I think we all experience it in every industry, but at the last five years, you know, it's just been mind boggling. So how did Ariel and you sort of pivot to adopt and and and integrate AI or help or tech or whatever else that you that came across your path? How did you and what and how did you choose?

What

to do? For myself personally, I ended up going through a training program through Stanford called artificial intelligence and health care. And that helped me to get kind of my finger on the pulse of where things were, what were the gaps, and where were they heading. So in something really objective like imaging, know, leaps and bounds. Like, it's so sophisticated and so clean.

And these new AI tools are they are emerging very quickly. So it's important to kind of keep up with where that trajectory is heading and make sure Ariel's aligned. And then, you know, I think being transparent about what is the actual use case and tool when you think of, like, artificial intelligence. We're not running like a robot to solve these problems. Is very careful, curated, multidisciplinary experts that are working with this data and working with tools like pattern recognition technology, which is kind of under the classification of machine learning, independent data sets that can either verify the accuracy of a finding, or is this just a hallucination from the data.

One thing that's become apparent is the quality of the data is paramount. So, you know, we've invested heavily in curating our own data and being responsible. We set pretty high quality thresholds for what we accept, which leaves a lot of new data. We just it it doesn't make sense to integrate just because the quality and the accuracy just isn't there. So I think we are a small component in this growing ecosystem of artificial intelligence and health care.

And what's awesome is that companies like Nvidia and others are investing heavily in creating these products to make our job more efficient, make the tools that we use, you know, better and better over time. That continual improvement something that I think is gonna be critical kind of breaking the barrier in some of these previously unsolved problems.

Mhmm. Mhmm. Yeah. And I think you touched on something interesting about how we humans will still need to correct and modify and and observe and oversee and and make and cross check to make sure that the data because you said something else that caught my attention. That was the hallucination of data.

And, tell me what what you experienced in that because, I mean, that that's a very interesting topic. I've I've heard it a couple times before.

So I would say, the term AI, Heath, when we started Ariel about ten years ago, we were AI as in advanced intelligence for chronic diseases.

So

it's not throwing a bunch of data into a learning program and just seeing what pops up. It's really integrating the best minds across the world to focus on a problem. So for example, when we look at genetic data, you can look at large data sets and look at healthy people and people with the disease and try to pick up a signal and say, this is the cause of the disease. And that is not the case for most diseases, where there can be multiple if you think of it kind of mapping out the code of an engineering process, where you've got something upstream that's broken by little, something downstream that's broken by little, and independently those things don't cause a problem because your body can account for them. You've got a number of things that when you look at from a statistical perspective don't cause a problem, you have to change the way in which you look at the data and figure out how do we use mathematical modeling to calculate the impact of all of these independent things that in combination cause a big problem.

So I think we're always cautious when we look at findings or discoveries and are very diligent and kind of we don't operate in a black box where we throw a bunch of magic machine learning dust on it and saying, give us the answer. It is a very rigorous process to verify and validate any findings, understand what are the weights that kind of got us there. You know, one of my data scientists is so meticulous and careful. And while it may take them a little bit longer, I know that that's going to be the right answer. And then we've got multiple independent places that can verify that.

So I think it's

Is that

approaching it with a lot of enthusiasm, but also caution and a little bit of temperance where we can say This is this looks so cool and really promising. Let's understand this a little bit deeper. And anything that ends up becoming

customer

focused or customer facing has been through multiple rigorous steps to ensure the quality and the accuracy of the And then I think one of the other critical things that we've tried to integrate that is a meaningful opportunity for change for the health care system is as a patient's clinical state progresses, you know, the features of their disease, comorbidities, their adverse events, lifestyle, environment, their weight, their, you know, other things, all these things change. So how do we create a framework to actually model those based on something that's essentially locked data, like your genetics, and then use those things to change the weight or the impact across a person's health trajectory more comprehensively. Because we are a large body of interconnected system that have to work together in sync. And we can't treat a person like one organ or one problem. There's so many elements of our total total quality of health, quality of life that need to be accounted for when you're looking at, you know, keeping a patient in the healthiest state possible or or moving them back towards health from a really bad disease place.

Mhmm. Yeah. Interesting. Thanks for clarifying that. It it was a great explanation.

So, I mean, that taking that in consideration, I mean, that I mean, the world is being bombarded by AI, technology, automation, etcetera, etcetera. So when it comes to something as sort of serious as, you know, someone's health and someone's outcome from illness, and you're trying to market this company and and what you do and then what you can how you can help people. In all that noise out there, how do you get your message out? Like, how do you get to who you're trying to speak to? What tools do you use?

What what what resources?

So I'd say one of the the double edged sword of having multiple stakeholders, kind of multiple customers, is when you're a patient looking, saying, I just got this diagnosis. What do I do? We have resources to help patients get connected with our products. When you're a provider, how do we work with a lot of conferences. We work with a lot of key opinion leaders, academic centers to equip them with the most advanced tools that will improve the quality of care, really differentiate them and their group, and institution as being a leader within that particular discipline.

You know, on the drug development side, you know, there's a lot of work in like AI, in drug discovery, looking at all these different chemical compounds and what gets a signal. We kind of started on the other end where we we started with a problem, we deep we created a deep understanding of it, and then we looked at the landscape of drug compounds saying, okay, for this patient type, what is going to work for them? And then that's kind of how we got into our lead asset, APM 176, is we identified the highest percentage of disease driver in pancreatitis and found a compound that targets that specifically. So looking at this as a model for, you know, we have patients that have consented to participate in clinical trials that they match up with in our database that have gone through genetic testing. They and their provider have benefited from kind of insights into it, like, why am I sick?

What is causing this to me and what's going to happen to me? And being able to match those patients to clinical trials that they might be appropriate candidates for is incredibly important, especially when you're dealing with underserved communities. You know, as in the drug development space, looking at a rare ish disease, finding patients enough to power a clinical trial can be challenging. We preemptively solved that problem. The I think the growth phase that we're at is really reaching out to other pharmaceutical companies and investors to collaborate and partner with either their compound in identifying the right patients that may benefit from it if it's an approved product, or identifying from a patient stratification perspective, which patients would be most appropriate, the mechanism of their disease meets the mechanism of action of your drug, and really facilitating that.

And we're taking the lead with our lead compound in a number of indications. But, you know, I'd say accessing customers has to be, you know, tailored to where they're at. We work with patient advocacy groups, nonprofit organizations. When we're looking at children, we work with a group called Rebecca's Wish that's focused on, you know, pediatric pancreatitis. We work with with Mission Cure, which is nonprofit, National Pinkers Foundation, and expanding our reach into who are the stakeholders that are that actually care about this disease.

And I think that I guess from a marketing perspective, it's like, who cares about this and why should they care? And who's impacted by this and how can we, you know, make them aware, educate them about what we've created that can serve that need.

Sounds like a lot of cross branding, cross pollination with other organizations and other stakeholders that are have a mutual vested interest, whether it's in the patient or in the pharmaceuticals or in the providers. That's that's kind of interesting, but you can tap into all those, but at the same time complicates the the basic aspect of, oh, we can't just put out a Google ad or a meta ad. And, I mean, sure. Brand awareness is is is important, but at the same time, I don't think it's quite the the

It's not like a widget where we're like

your audience. It sounds like a lot more inner no. But No. No. It's a little more complicated.

So a lot more, academia and sort of knowledge sharing and, probably a lot more face to face. Like, how do you how do you meet with these people? Do you I mean, it's attending conferences. It's speaking engagements or maybe organizing those kinds of things. Are you are you doing a lot

of that as well? And I'm so grateful for the the integration of technology to allow us, like, meet face to face virtually, but I also think there's a real, you know, value in kind of meeting people in person. You know, grabbing a cup of coffee and, like, talking about Mhmm. You know, what you're what you're doing. So I do a lot of that.

I would say one of the one of the elements of Ariel when we look at, like, our advanced platform or advanced technology is it is that hub spoke model. So we really have kind of, like, a central set of tools that allow different products to be delivered to the different stakeholders. So, you know, that simplifies it where we're not creating, you know if you think of it like your iPhone, it used to just be a phone and an iPod. Now it and sorry for the Android users, the Google Pixel people that hate iPhones, but would you say iPhone is was the leader? Smartphone.

Smartphone.

It's a it's cross

ranging. But I mean, smartphone. It it is a central product that creates, you know, so many different applications to different customers for different needs, but, they don't have to create a custom product for each person. They just have different applications that meet that need. And we kind of think of it that same way where we have a central tool which has a lot of utility just depending on its use case.

Yeah. Good analogy. I like that. You like a smartphone.

The smartphone. I'll keep that.

So I got one more question for you, and then we will we'll wrap it up. So if tomorrow morning you could wake up and one of your business challenges, whatever wherever that may be, would be fixed, what would you pick?

I mean, we're really looking for a strategic partner or an investor to help us with this growth phase for our drug development program. It's really the the greatest value creator for both aerial and the patient community and really establishes the capabilities of kind of this wash, rinse, repeat model that we've integrated. But to get the first in disease treatment for an orphan disease that affects so many people, that would be like Mhmm. The feather in the hat hat of my career. But also, I think it would be just a huge value creator.

So tomorrow morning, I expect to wake up with a lot of requests to meet in my inbox.

Well, I wish that for you. You never know. I'm glad, and and maybe it won't be coming from this because this won't be aired for a few weeks. But maybe after that

Whenever this whenever this goes live.

Awesome. Well, I really appreciate this conversation. I've enjoyed meeting you, enjoyed hearing about your, your career and and where you are with Ariel, and I hope maybe we'll have another conversation again. I'd love to have you back, and we could talk about something different, or we can catch up from where we left off here today. And, anyways, thank you again.

Any anything else you'd like to mention that we didn't cover? You want to make sure we talked about? Or

Thank you for having me on. You know, peep I'm more than happy to meet with people that are interested in learning more about areal or the diseases we're focused on, you know, info at ArielMedicine.com. I'm on LinkedIn. Jessica m Gibson. So, you know, really looking at connecting with, you know, stakeholders that are interested in what we're doing.

I enjoyed my time, with Jessica Gibson and learning more about aerial precision medicine. I think my takeaway from this episode was that, you know, Jessica's very clear on on where she fits into the organization, and she discovered that along the way. And I think that's an important thing to understand that, you know, not not everyone's cut out to be a boss. And I like what she said. She goes, I don't wanna be the boss.

So she has chosen to, you know, stick to her strengths and, as opposed to, you know, floundering in the weaknesses, and then we've all probably, experienced that at least once in our careers. And I think that her challenges have really been a driver for where she is now, and she's really learned from those experiences. And then and I think I also think that that's a great piece to to take away with is that, yeah, we we learn from our failures, and then that's an important part of the journey. So thanks for listening today, and I hope you enjoyed it. Stay tuned.